The Contradictory Feelings Thread

[Ars Lande]

I went to the doctor today and he said he was not quite sure about the problem but suspected that I may simply have hyperthyroidism. I will need to take the medication he prescribed and get some more blood work in the upcoming months to see what happens.

Glad you got a more reassuring diagnosis, and I hope things turn out OK for you.
From my limited experience, thyroid trouble has some pretty crippling symptoms, but treatments are pretty reliable.

[Izambri]

Welcome, Winter — Whoever stole Autumn is cruel and unfeeling

[ol bofosh]

Just come back from England. I'm reminded once again of cultural contrasts (what follows is subjective observation and opinion).

You walk around a country park in England and say hello to bright, smiling faces (most of the time). Do the same in Spain and they might say hello, but they'll give you a look of "what the fuck do you want?" (I am, of course, talking generally; individual cases vary, thank God). In English shops thank yous, pleases and your welcomes get thrown around regularily, even when not needed. The Spanish alternative, as one Canarian I knew once put it, "Why say thank you to a shop assistant? They're doing their job, it's what they're there for, so there's no point."
On the flip side, the English have no idea how to communicate what they're thinking feeling, and the Spaniards do it regularly. The English explode violently from containing it, but the Spaniards have a good valve system for their moods, so pressure doesn't build so much.

England cares for and preserves its landscape and villages, i.e. "quaintness". Spaniards don't really care about it. Which has a distinct asthetic results. Good and bad. England is a garden and Spain's a wasteland, but... England doesn't allow innovations like solar panels and wind turbines to mess up their view (and then they complain about energy shortages - idiotas). Spain does allow it because a) they're hungry for change, b) they have no "lovely view" to ruin (and, in fact, it makes it more interesting) and c) it's an expression of their apsiration to be modern and "more European". England has no aspirations, least of all to be European. No change here please, we're British.

[Hallow XIII]

vote UKIP

[Drydic]

for Lord High Protector of the Shire

[Thry]

Just come back from England. I'm reminded once again of cultural contrasts (what follows is subjective observation and opinion).

You walk around a country park in England and say hello to bright, smiling faces (most of the time). Do the same in Spain and they might say hello, but they'll give you a look of "what the fuck do you want?" (I am, of course, talking generally; individual cases vary, thank God). In English shops thank yous, pleases and your welcomes get thrown around regularily, even when not needed. The Spanish alternative, as one Canarian I knew once put it, "Why say thank you to a shop assistant? They're doing their job, it's what they're there for, so there's no point."
On the flip side, the English have no idea how to communicate what they're thinking feeling, and the Spaniards do it regularly. The English explode violently from containing it, but the Spaniards have a good valve system for their moods, so pressure doesn't build so much.

England cares for and preserves its landscape and villages, i.e. "quaintness". Spaniards don't really care about it. Which has a distinct asthetic results. Good and bad. England is a garden and Spain's a wasteland, but... England doesn't allow innovations like solar panels and wind turbines to mess up their view (and then they complain about energy shortages - idiotas). Spain does allow it because a) they're hungry for change, b) they have no "lovely view" to ruin (and, in fact, it makes it more interesting) and c) it's an expression of their apsiration to be modern and "more European". England has no aspirations, least of all to be European. No change here please, we're British.

as a Spaniard all of this is true. In fact I even picture the park exchange xD:

"buenous dyias"
buenas! [¿... qué coño querrá éste?]

save for one thing: fick dir, we do have "lovely views" too... even in wasteland down here, not talking about Galician forests only.
de qué vas, tú xD

[Drydic]

beau'iful plumage!

[Izambri]

The country park scene *British style* wouldn't look weird in Catalonia. In fact it's quite usual to say hola! or bon dia! to people you don't know while walking thru a rural area or a natural park. On the other hand don't expect the same in an urban park or a natural park adjacent to a large urban area. Yeah, it works more or less that way; don't ask why.

A similar thing occurs at shops: generally you say hola, bon dia and gràcies when buying at local shops, but the same is less usual at supermarkets.
Personally I say hola and gràcies in any of these places; I don't see the reason to be polite in a bakery but quite the opposite at, say, IKEA.

About windfarms et al. There's an ongoing controversy about renewable energies here in Catalonia. Ecologism is strong but people worry a lot about their aesthetic impact in the landscape. I don't know the exact number, but some windfarms have been dismantled due to that.

[ol bofosh]

save for one thing: fick dir, we do have "lovely views" too... even in wasteland down here, not talking about Galician forests only.
de qué vas, tú xD

There are, it's true. I'm surrounded by them. There's just seems to be more of a NIMBY culture in Britain (not saying there isn't in Spain). I've been to two nice rincones that have been well-preserved by monasteries (Monasterio de piedra and monstir de poblet).

[sirdanilot]

In Holland the employees are trained to say 'good morning/ good day/ good evening', and 'have a nice day/weekend' when you are leaving. It seems extremely rude to me not to reply to that?

I do see 'silent' employees more often nowadays though, especially in urban areas; I often still say something, even if they don't. It strikes me as slightly rude but I don't really mind all that much. Unthinkable in rural areas though. At least they do always ask you if you want the receipt, so there's always some sort of conversation.

I mind the 'silent' employees less in very cheap shops (such as Aldi/Lidl). I guess they don't earn enough money to smile and say 'hello' at those shops, and I'm not paying for it either if I shop there

[Izambri]

Personally, there are situations when a thank you seems too forced or unnatural. For example when receiving/paying what I'm buying in a shop or supermakert. I tend to say molt bé "very good" followed by adéu "goodbye", which is more than enough to act politely.

[finlay]

here they shout at you when you enter ('irasshaimase'/~welcome or 'please come in') or leave ('arigatou gozaimashita'/~thank you) a shop or restaurant – and if one person does it everyone else in the shop responds – but they do it so often throughout the day that they end up eliding most of the syllables and it becomes a very nasal [se~:::]. on a bad day it drives me nuts and i feel like shouting "shut up" back.

some people have told me (and i've observed it) that japanese people don't thank shop assistants, unless they go above and beyond the call of duty and give them help specifically, although i don't think it's universal, and i can't quite get my head around that either, so i end up saying at least 'doumo' (~thanks).

[Drydic]

The country park scene *British style* wouldn't look weird in Catalonia. In fact it's quite usual to say hola! or bon dia! to people you don't know while walking thru a rural area or a natural park. On the other hand don't expect the same in an urban park or a natural park adjacent to a large urban area. Yeah, it works more or less that way; don't ask why.

...what do you mean by "urban park" and "natural park"?

[Salmoneus]

Can't speak for him, but alimi 'park' can stand for one of two different things: a large, preserved piece of nature, often with forests, lakes etc; or a small open highly unnatural green space in the middle of a town. There are obviously some in-between examples here and there (and actually it's probably worth while distinguishing a third type, the grounds of a (current or former) stately home that have been opened to the public - these tend to be intermediate in both naturalness and size between city parks and country parks), but this may be a similar distinction to the one izambri is making?

[Drydic]

I'm going to leave the rest aside for the moment and focus on this

a small open highly unnatural green space in the middle of a town.

Your usage of unnatural here is nigh-cringe-inducing to me.

[Rhetorica]

Your usage of unnatural here is nigh-cringe-inducing to me.

I think the point was that it was just a flat square full of well-trimmed grass—pretty unnatural, all things considered.

[KathTheDragon]

How about artificial?

[Torco]

parks are and aberration, they are unnatural and should be burned, lest their unnatural substance mar all our souls and damn us! burn them! BURN THEM I TELL YOU!

[Salmoneus]

I'm going to leave the rest aside for the moment and focus on this

a small open highly unnatural green space in the middle of a town.

Your usage of unnatural here is nigh-cringe-inducing to me.

In what way? Natural = produced by nature, with relatively little human intervention. Unnatural = would not be that way without considerable human intervention.

In general, 'nature parks' are left to be how they are, with some interference aimed at preventing or reversing change. Whereas, in general, urban parks are nothing like what would be there without intervention, and indeed couldn't exist anywhere without extensive and continual human management, let alone exist in a city.

Do you not think this is a fair distinction to draw?

[Obviously, there are always exceptions. I live near both an area that could be called a park (it was a hunting park, and for a long time was called a Great Park, but now it isn't, in this area 'park' usually meaning the grounds of an estate; the legal term used is 'Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty') that appears natural but is in fact entirely artificial, and also an urban park in the 'wilderness' style that is mostly left to its own devices, at least in the middle. But for the most part I think the distinction holds good.]

Oh, and I've just thought of a fourth type of park: an open area filled with a certain type of thing, specified in the name of the park. For instance, near me there is a llama park, filled with llamas. You also get sculpture parks. And I guess 'car park' is an example of this also.

EDIT: it's true that in my own country, there's nowhere that's entirely untouched by human usage, except maybe a few hilltops here and there, though I imagine that in other countries there are more substantial areas that are, if not entirely untouched, at least more or less as they would be without intervention. In any case, however, I think it's legitimate to distinguish between environments that are the product of intentional shaping into parks, and those that are not intentionally shaped into parks, but have their picturesqueness emerge without intent.

[Radius Solis]

That's a perfectly fair and reasonable distinction to draw. It's just the term you drew it with - "unnatural" - while correct in the literal sense still carries the implication that the practice of having urban parks is undesirable or even abominable, which rather interfered with what you were trying to convey.

In the US, the natural vs. urban distinction tends to line up reasonably well with the jurisdiction responsible for managing the place, so we don't usually need any particular terminology for it. It is mostly sufficient to mention a "national park", "state park", "county park", or "city park" and you will know from that what to expect - specifically, cities and counties mostly do urban parks to serve local recreational needs, while at the state and national level they are mainly setting aside natural landscape for preservation, only in such a manner as to accommodate visitors. (If it's not meant to accommodate visitors, they won't usually call it a "park", but instead e.g. a "nature preserve" or a "wilderness area".)

[Astraios]

save for one thing: fick dir, we do have "lovely views" too... even in wasteland down here, not talking about Galician forests only.
de qué vas, tú xD

Screw that, natural views are always better than manmade ones.

[Drydic]

save for one thing: fick dir, we do have "lovely views" too... even in wasteland down here, not talking about Galician forests only.
de qué vas, tú xD

Screw that, natural views are always better than manmade ones.

Always?


Really now, that's too broad of a statement to make, imo.

[Astraios]

Sure, the first one's pretty, but I'm not convinced it's prettier than a natural one. And the one in the link is just a bare gravelly hill...

[Pthagnar]

go back to lusting after the paramours of egypt imho

[Drydic]

I turn 30 today.