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zompist bboard • View topic - The Contradictory Feelings Thread

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:14 pm 
Avisaru
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and did you go for tests


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:16 pm 
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yes, and none of them were chill and Just Common Sense.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:18 pm 
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your tests were a reaction to a scare, then


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:23 pm 
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no, they were a reaction to 'well, everyone says you're supposed to get tested, and they're throwing money at this like i'm in some fucking african plague camp so why not'.

Although it *was* a reaction to a scare [of course because HIV IS SCARY] -- but not a scare of nonspecific "probabilities", but about specific *men*. Pushing the fear and loathing out into "probability", "just because" and "just a check" [...for what?] is a tempting thing to do, and I sympathise with people who do it, but not something I can, with intellectual integrity, promote in my own mind, and especially not to others.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:38 pm 
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fuck you, i'm occupy faggotry, i don't need to sign off on a list of demands written up by somebody else trying to help.

i am promoting what i am promoting: namely: fight anybody who is trying to pull the wool over your eyes by talking about venereal disease like it's just something that happens, that you're just getting tested because it's what the cool kids do, or because it's necessary to get checked for No Reason Really. Anything to avoid thinking that what you're actually getting tested for are some politically incorrect consequences from fucking all those strange men.

----

To clarify: there were no specific incidents with specific men, no sores, no little black skin cancers, no suspiciously large pillboxes, no anything [and gosh, look how you have to be aware of this shit!]. But at the same time there was a VERY REAL RISK and the men were VERY REAL MEN. And -- another thing here which worries me deeply -- alongside the apparently liberating nature of 'oh yeah look at me fuckin a man yeah this is it this is as real as it gets', there is a weird kind of bondage in having to strap a tight rubber thing onto your dick, of treating semen, once it comes out, like it belongs in a fucking pathology laboratory. Of knowing that even despite these precautions, there's still a very real and residual risk.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:15 pm 
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I was trying to clarify that I believe the opposite of your last point in my previous post, but I failed. So I will assert it -- that I do not think Astraios, or me, or generally speaking lots of [and maybe most] homosexuals [or for that matter straight people, although who can speak for them] get AIDS tests *spurred on by specific cases* but because of a *general fear*.

I repeat: I do *not* think he has any *specific men* in mind. But there *are* actual men involved, and the only way he could have got HIV is through them. HIV is scary, and it is right to be scared by it. But the cause of ones fear is not that you accidentally drifted into a bad part of probability space, it is because of dangerous fucking. You cannot take into account, when deciding what to do, something that "just happens", but you *can* take into account something *specific* with a *very clear cause*. That's fucking science.

This is not the only time that I have seen this strategy of decoupling the unwanted thing, the thing that anti-homosexuals make homosexual intercourse into -- the bad consequences of homosexuality and promiscuity -- from the thing that homosexuals make it into -- joy and liberation through homosexuality and promiscuity. Everyone does this sort of thing, it is a universal cognitive bias of all political groups and all ideologies: I don't like it when queerbashers do it, and I don't like it when queers do it.

Decoupling "I did such and such and so I fear I have got AIDS from it" into "I did such and such" and "I fear I have got AIDS" is to go fey [in multiple senses of the word], purposefully making yourself think [and so behave] irrationally, compromising your arguments, leaving you open to huge holes you have torn yourself in your own ideology, handing the missing pieces of the puzzle over to your enemies and learning to make yourself a helpless victim: *that's* the homosexual party line. fuck the party! fuck that! fuck all that!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:32 pm 
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well all right he might be WRONG to decouple cause and consequence but that was no good reason for people (before you joined, even) being zeebishly unable to receive the information that he was putting out there: "no, I don't think I might have just gotten HIV".

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:59 pm 
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oh, then by 'people' you mean shm jay. shm jay is a stupid fuck who makes a moron of himself in the exact same way i describe except in the anti-homosexualist cause, and he does it terribly even by their standards. acting like a fey little child in the worst way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:39 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:51 pm 
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they happen to you when you fuck diseased people. that is not 'just happening'.you do something: there is a consequence.. if you don't fuck diseased people, you can't catch disease. "fucking people sometimes" is not the cause and is exactly the sort of chopped up half-proposition i was talking about.

you show how easy it is to slip into this disordered and fey way of speaking. you 'ironically' draw an equivalence between sexually active people [like that is also a relevant thing and not an overgeneralisation, the most general error of which is that it turns your thinking away from concrete good and bad acts [which , yes, invite judgement which may or may not be divine] and towards a ~lifestyle choice~ and to Being a Kind of Person] and "cool kids" and 'ironically' argue based on it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:29 am 
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Well yeah, in theory, but practically its really hard to know a priory who is diseased and who isn't: *everyone* who's fucked a few people is connected to the fuckweb [that web in which everyone has indirectly fucked hundres of thousands of people given enough degrees of separation] is at risk of being unknowingly infected, and you can't know a priory either the position of a person in that web or their health status. Thus, from a pragmatic view you need to look at it stochastically because you never really know, even if you only fuck one person <because that person can fuck someone and not tell you <like an affaire> and that means that, as far as you can reasonably know, fucking people means a nonzero probability of catching something. that chance being modified by all the things, but since your info is always imperfect you're burdained by that nonzero chance and thus its kind of smart, again, to get tested just because. <since its convenient and cheap... i mean here in the third world its just 4 bucks, some person juice, a signature and 25 minutes, surely its similarly easy in the euroworld>

i mean, if you are a kind of person <the kind who fucks a few people every X time> and you fuck people who are in turn too active sexually, that's reason enough to get tested every now and then.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:31 am 
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congratulations, torco, for continuing to provide a living example of craven left-liberalism, covering yourself itself in abstractions so as to ever be safe from having to notice that the forest is full of trees. you do your party a great service.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:11 am 
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thank you, father. I wish god only sent diseases to people who deserve them, but alas, he sometimes doesn't. isn't that why you guys do it with very little children?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:32 am 
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...fascists?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:42 am 
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nah, much worse, those dirty libertines. 1 in 4 people, more or less, are those dirty libertines who are diseased people whom god judges you of fucking and gives you STDs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:52 am 
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oh, then i guess i fall into the class of "english people", and so the pederasty-rich category you are surely referring to is "british entertainers famed for their libertinism who who are still being regularly discovered to have been fucking children on the sly for the past few decades under the quite possibly willfully blind eyes of the media establishment"

well, happily i have a low opinion of them anyway, and don't find it particularly surprising. not sure why it's relevant, but then "nuh uh, look over there -- those people did a thing!" is an even better tree-avoidance tactic than overgeneralising


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:24 am 
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Not englishmen, nor entretainers, but clerics <i guess they are entretainers, in a way... performers anyway> whom share with you that celibacy or monogamy are somehow defaults and that only filthy sinners should test themselves for stds: thus father.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:05 am 
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you want to talk about defaults? i have been emphasising nothing more than the importance of informed choice and how you should beware the many people, victims of cognitive biases most likely, who spread disinformation preventing you from taking a good look at what you're actually doing and thinking. And this, I have said, is found everywhere. But in particular, among homosexuals, the main voice heard and repeated is that of promiscuity. So that's why I'm talking about that. I assume that from your sarcasm you already know about the weaknesses, hypocrisies and fantasies of the preachers of chastity, so why retread over them?

Even less have I said ANYWHERE "everything else being the same, fewer people should be tested for STDs". For God's sake, if you think you may have contracted one, then YES, GO AND GET ONE. Kereb brought up something similar before, where apparently I was failing to promote "get yourself checked regular if that's how you're going to be" vigorously enough; I'm still not sure why he said that, but he has more sense than you, of course, because you, you overeducated schmuck who should stick to barking slogans out loud rather than hiding them in five dollar mathematics words, you come out and say 'hurr, you think people getting tested is a bad idea! kiddie fucker! kiddie fucker!'. fuck you, you fucking pinko cunt.

*You* are the one who is making dodgy assumptions, and assumptions of the sort that I am pointing out -- primarily that sexual promiscuity is how people Just Behave, that "a priori" you cannot expect to know whether or not somebody is carrying disease, or be expected to discover this fact before deciding whether or not getting your end wet with them is something you're going to do, that thinking about specific cases is not profitable because the default ["looking at it stochastically", apparently] is good enough, and this is taken, without comment, to the conclusion that you should essentially consider everybody to be fucking so much and so indiscriminately that you can look at crude probabilistic measures like "1 in 4 people had an STI" and think 'well, that's it! better keep on fuckin''.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:33 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:35 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:36 am 
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The problem is, though, that one really has no way of knowing someone else's status with regard to having sex with other people, or who they happen to be having sex with. No matter how careful one may try to be personally, that cannot control for how careful the people one has had sex with are in having sex with other people, and so on and so forth. Even if one is in a supposedly monogamous marriage one really cannot stop one's partner from cheating on one, without one's knowledge. So hence one cannot really know someone else's likely status STD-wise, as much as one may wish to delude oneself into thinking that one can. As much as one may like to frame things in terms of "incidents", the matter is that if one is sexually active one has no real way of knowing whether those one is having sex with have STDs. In essence from a personal standpoint, as long as one is sexually active, it is necessary to see it as being stochastic in nature; to believe otherwise is merely self-delusion. Hence it is only prudent if one is sexually active to be regularly tested for them, even if one has no specific reason to believe that one has contracted them.

Now the question is why pthag is so vehemently against regular testing for STDs such as HIV...

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Last edited by Travis B. on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:37 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:44 am 
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