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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:11 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:10 pm 
Avisaru
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I think that's also /z/ in egyptian or not?

It's been a while since I took arabic.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Last edited by masako on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:42 pm 
Avisaru
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K mate I'll take your word for it

I heard a /s/ and /z/ for every th and dh from her but okay


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:17 pm 
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:02 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:57 am 
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In the Arabic dialects where ق is pronounced as a uvular [q] or [ɢ], what is the pronunciation of i, ī when adjacent to qāf, for example in the word ʿirāqī?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:07 am 
Avisaru
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In my experience short i becomes more like [ɪ] like qitar [qɪtɑːr] but the long i stays an i. It's not impossible to pronounce, just slightly harder than normal.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:20 am 
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I keep accidentallying Ojibwe words into my Japanese. I don't know how many times my brain is going to spit out 'miinawaa' (ミーナワー!) when I'm trying to construct some Japanese sentence.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:21 pm 
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Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:04 pm 
Smeric
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Irish spelling ... I get it now ... mostly, but I don't always know how to work out the vowel's pronunciation when there's a front vowel and a back vowel. In a word like seaicéad (Jacket), it's pretty easy.

These vowels, seaicéad, are there to mark the s and the c as "slender", leaving the a in the first syllable to only conceivably be there because it is pronounced. Then in the second syllable, the accent over the e means it's long, meaning that, odds are, it is pronounced and that final a is just there to make the d hard.

But in a word like anois (now), I look at it and think "Do I pronounce the "o" or the "i"?" I assumed the o and that the "i" was there to make the "s" slender, but it's pronounced [əˈn̪ˠɪʃ] in most dialects, meaning the "i" is pronounced and the "o" is just there to show that the "n" is broad.

Also, in the Connemara dialect, it's [əˈnʲɪʃ], meaning it would better be spelt ainis, but I can deal with simple irregularity.

I know that, for example, the letter combination "aoi" is pronounced /i:/ and indicates a preceding broad consonant and a following hard consonant, which doesn't make much intuitive sense to me ... but do I have to remember every pair or triplet of written vowels. For example, is "oi" usually /ɪ/ preceded by hard and followed by soft ... or can it also represent an "o" sound?

For people unfamiliar with Irish, broad = velarised (indicated by being surrounded by back vowels) and slender = palatalised (indicated by surrounding front vowels).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:44 am 
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 7:52 pm 
Smeric
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I struggle with Irish as well, sometimes I forget that an is the definite article, and there are no indefinite articles. The spelling, the pronunciation, basically everything.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:25 am 
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:32 am 
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Lots of sound files on this site. You look up the word in one of the dictionaries and then hit the 'Pronunciation' tag :

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/anois

This on illustrates the stress/length differences across the dialects :

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/seaic%C3%A9ad

In Ulster the second historically long vowel is unstressed and short, but not obscure.
In Connacht the stress sound fairly even between the syllables to me, with the second vowel long.
In Munster the long vowel has attracted the main stress, and has also broken /e/ > /iə/.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:52 pm 
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Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...


Last edited by marconatrix on Sat May 09, 2015 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:12 pm 
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It is weird to me the phonological coincidences between Munster and Scottish Gaelic despite their being on opposite ends of the dialect continuum. See also their treatment of short vowels before tense liquids and nasals.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 12:43 pm 
Sanno
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Do the traditional dialect distinctions actually have any relevance for real, living Irish? That is, is the 'Munster' dialect just what's spoken by twenty guys out in Dingle, or is it still reflected in the speech of ordinary young speakers in, say, Waterford?
[And given that most Irish speakers live in Dublin, which isn't in Ulster, Munster or Connacht, what dialect do they speak?]

*checks wikipedia*
So am I right in thinking that what people speak now is a standardised form derived from the Connacht dialect? Or is that only in Dublin (ie do people in Waterford still speak Munster?)

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 3:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:40 am 
Lebom
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Just a note to say that the Scots Gaelic sound files are working again (today at least) here :

http://faclair.com/

Hover over the icon or the IPA and wait a second or two ...

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp
One thing I struggle with is I think I spend so much time with non-native English speakers, I think my grip on my mother tongue loosens a bit every day. :roll:

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