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zompist bboard • View topic - Linguistic Struggles Thread

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:18 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
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Location: One of the dark places of the world
Today I learnt (thank you marconatrix for the link): I'm unable to distinguish an alveopalatal lateral from /j/. Seriously, can't hear any lateral element there.

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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:46 pm 
Smeric
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

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It was about time I changed this.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 7:19 am 
Avisaru
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Location: The darkest corner of your mind...
I have now tried to refer to a chair as 'seza' and rice as 'vary', because apparently it wasn't bad enough to constantly insert Ojibwe words into Japanese; I must also add Malagasy. The descent into gibberish continues.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 7:49 am 
Avisaru
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Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
It helps to learn one language at a time.

I never got the language mixing thing personally.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:48 am 
Smeric
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp
Since learning Spanish, my default model for foreign languages is Spanish. That means every time I try to construct French or Catalan sentences, some Spanish grammar slips in, usually the use of prepositions.

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It was about time I changed this.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:20 am 
Avisaru
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Location: Brussels

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— o noth sidiritt Tormiott


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:23 am 
Avisaru
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Location: Michigan, USA
I just end up pronouncing everything as Spanish-like as possible... it's terrible. I think because Spanish was the first non-English language I was exposed to as a child, my brain somehow got the idea that this must just be how non-English languages are pronounced, so it still tries to apply it to every other language I see.

But, then, I've never reached anywhere approaching proficiency in any other languages, so maybe if I did so my brain would finally get the point!

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I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:18 pm 
Smeric
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Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = , ACS / ICS = , GDV = , SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:10 am 
Smeric
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

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It was about time I changed this.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:05 am 
Avisaru
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Location: The darkest corner of your mind...

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:27 am 
Avisaru
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:47 pm 
Lebom
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Location: Kernow
I've always wondered about "field methods". I'd assumed there would be handbooks, guides, or at least class notes, but when I've searched the internet I've never found anything. Is there anything you can point me to, or is it simply a black art taught only to initiates?

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Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:00 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:50 am 
Lebom
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Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:42 am 
Avisaru
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Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 880
Location: Llundain
Yeah I can't speak French anymore without dropping Arabic words in, or rather pausing a lot because the process is usually try and form sentence > remember word > get halfway through sentence > realise next word is actually arabic > stop to remember french word > rinse and repeat

If it makes you feel any better, I STILL can't distinguish between /H/ and /h/ in Arabic when people pronounce them with emphasis - it's generally fine when people are speaking normally, but if I don't hear it properly and ask for confirmation people massively overpronounce it and /h/ just ends up sounding exactly like /H/ to me. Also my ability to hear velarisation varies enormously from accent to accent - I can hear it in Levantine, but with most Egyptians I can't detect any difference between s and ṣ.

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كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!





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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:20 am 
Avisaru
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 pm
Posts: 734
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
I have never heard of difficulties in perceiving the Haa sound, only with pronouncing it. When I did Arabic most students couldn't make the pharyngeal sounds, only those of Moroccan descent (who already could speek moroccan arabic and were learning fusHa) and me could do it. After 1.5 years or so the others started being able to properly pronounce it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:19 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 880
Location: Llundain

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كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!





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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:21 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:21 pm
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Location: Taipeium, Respublica Sinarum


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:22 pm 
Lebom
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Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:29 pm
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Location: Kernow

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Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:16 am 
Smeric
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 pm
Posts: 1169
Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp
I wanted to say Happy Birthday to my Polish friend in his own language. Boy, did I ruin that. Mega consonant cluster! Pfshksts... or something, just to begin with. And I was still told I was missing /s/ somewhere. I'm glad I don't have to learn it... yet. :o

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It was about time I changed this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:56 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 pm
Posts: 734
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:58 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 pm
Posts: 734
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
If you can't do consonant clusters don't try to learn Dutch.

For example a bus stop in my town is named 'Oegstgeest-Abtspoelweg' [uχstˈχeɪst ˈɑptspulwɛχ]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:36 pm 
Avisaru
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 779
Location: Brussels
I mean, yeah, we do have things like 'kerstster' and 'herfststorm', but I think Polish is a little more challenging when it comes to clusters.

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— o noth sidiritt Tormiott


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:35 pm 
Avisaru
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 738
Location: Luxembourg

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What do you see in the night?

In search of subjects to appear on banknotes. Inquire within.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:31 am 
Smeric
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

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It was about time I changed this.


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