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zompist bboard • View topic - Discrimination (from garden path thread and elsewhere)

zompist bboard

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:28 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:02 am 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:17 am 
Sumerul
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Holy moly my one little comment started off this entire argument and I hadn't even seen it before today.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:37 pm 
Lebom
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I'm not sure it's fair to stereotype people as "refusing to serve gay people" when, in almost much every case of this happening I can think of, what's actually going on is a refusal to provide services for a same-sex marriage or similar. The same bakers, florists etc. do serve gay people in other situations.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:48 pm 
Avisaru
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Into this discussion on what violence is, I would like to insert this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyitF-6tBu4

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Adúljôžal ônal kol ví éža únah kex yaxlr gmlĥ hôga jô ônal kru ansu frú.
Ansu frú ônal savel zaš gmlĥ a vek Adúljôžal vé jaga čaþ kex.
Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh. Ônal zeh.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 5:10 pm 
Smeric
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The laws are laws about denying service to people asking for an endorsement of gay marriage in their service, such as asking for a wedding cake with two men on it. The discussion discussed whether this is okay and if their is a level at which a cake for a gay wedding is not supporting gay marriage.
On western colonialism:
The way I see it, the current trend against faiuwle's type of colonialism is, in itself, colonialism.
On religious freedom and cake for gay people:
I believe that most active posters on this board are for Muslims doing all of the things zompist mentioned. I have noticed that the conlanging community tends has leftist tendencies. I do not believe that being prejudiced against someone is punishable - acting on that prejudice is. You can't arrest a man in the United States for believing that Hitler is the messiah (a thought), but you can if he vandalises someone's home (an action).

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:01 am 
Sumerul
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What violence needs, at the very least, is an act. Without an act, I don't think it's fair to say something constitutes violence. Therefore I reject the idea of equating laws to violence. Laws may permit certain violence, but they are not violence themselves. Bigotry, on the same level, is also not violence. Bigotry may lead to violence pretty often, but, again, it is not violence itself.


JAL


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:26 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:50 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:14 am 
Smeric
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The way I would define them is that they can, and often do, co-occur but one is not a subset of the other.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:54 am 
Smeric
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Don't try to impose definitions of violence on each other (which, according to some of you, is violence in itself). Just try to understand what others mean when they use that word.
For clarification: When I use the word violence I refer to either using physical force or the threat of such.

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:27 pm 
Lebom
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The reality is that we gays are good at baking anyway and making gay marriage the law of the land just wasn't good enough for the loudest and proudest fairies so they felt the need to target Christian bakeries and feel Daddy's oppression just one more time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:50 pm 
Avisaru
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Nort, businesses should be forced to sell a service defined in terms of a sequence of actions X, which they would sell to a client with tastes A, to a client with tastes B, provided X does not change with respect to A and B. Do you accept the proposition that in some cases, it is possible for the tastes of the client to leave the service they are provided with unaltered, or must the service change on the basis of the client's tastes in every single case?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:02 pm 
Lebom
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Resurrecting this thread again because I'm infumigated (yes I know not a word) that the Christian bakers lost the appeal and had to pay 500 pounds for breaking the 'sexual orientation and political discrimination law'.

Go. To. A. Different. Bakery.

Stop acting like victims. Gays are not oppressed anymore in the Western world. This is coming from me, a gay man.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:16 pm 
Sumerul
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You tell me that a group that regularly gets thrown out of their homes so as to become homeless by their own parents is not oppressed.

Yeah.

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Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:53 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:11 am 
Avisaru
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What is important here is to note that there are actually two different issues here. The prospective clients are claiming that they are being discriminated against based on their sexual orientation, while the bakery is saying that their objection is to the message they are being asked to put on the cake. These are actually two separate things. Now I do not sympathise with the bakery, but their arguments raise some interesting question.

Let's look at the scenario in a different way. Say a straight couple walks into the shop and asks for the same cake. Would the bakery serve them? If the answer is yes, then it is a definite case of homophobia, proves the claimants' arguments correct and is morally condemnable. If the answer is no, on the other hand, then we run into dangerous territory. In this case the bakery is working on not supporting the "message" of the cake, and is extendable to other things as well. Say you walked into the same bakery and asked for a cake with an anti-religious slogan on it, completely contradicting their beliefs more than any pro-gay-marriage cake could. Or you walked in and asked for an overtly racist or misogynistic cake (by the way I do not equate these last two things with those mentioned in previous sentences). Are the bakers under any obligation to serve you then?

This is such murky territory that it has caused .

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:05 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:15 am 
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