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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 pm 
Lebom
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Although I'm an atheist, I have an interest in the various translations of the Bible. I've mentioned the ones I have in . I don't know much about any version in English other than the Authorized Version (a.k.a. the King James Version), but I can do a quick survey of French variants if anyone's interested.

Do you have a version of the Bible? If so, which one?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:39 pm 
Smeric
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I remember a children's Bible from when I was very young, which was a pretty thick book but not really a translation, imo, but a retelling. E.g. the future Savior was mentioned immediately after the Garden of Eden story so that it would not end on a bad note.

Very similar in shape and size...probably same publisher... the another children's Bible but a true translation this time with everything given verse for verse. Sorry I don't remember the names of either of them.

In high school I got an NASB Catholic bible, which was the one I read the most, and kept well after the introduction of easy online Bible access. But even so, later on I bought a version aimed at teens & young adults ... it had notes on the side expressing how each story was relevant to modern society. It was also reworded ... e.g. penny instead of lepton. Originally I wrote that it was NKJV, but having looked that up I can tell there's no way it could have been NKJV. It may have been a unique translation invented by that publisher. So.... Ive only actually had one mainstream Bible, the NASB from high school.

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Last edited by Soap on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:33 pm 
Lebom
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I also had a children's Bible when I was a kid: , called The Bible in 365 stories. It's still at my parents'.

I remember thinking at the time that I had read the actual Bible. Well, at least it gave me an overview. A


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:05 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:52 pm 
Sanno
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I grew up with a Good News in primary school, and I got at least one if not two or three Gideons in secondary school. Depending on what exactly 'possession' entails I (/my family) also have at least two old-ish bibles: one's a stocky little thing I can't remember the details of, while the other is a nice old slightly-ornamental one that I think is probably DRC.

[The Good News is an illustrated bible in plain English, for children and those who aren't great readers. It's popular with both evangelicals and Catholics. The Douay-Rheims was the first Catholic bible in English, and is notable for intentionally being as confusing and hard to understand as possible; it's a translation of the vulgate, uses a lot of made-up words*, and attempts to translate the vulgate very precisely, and in particular to avoid giving any appearance of clarity where it is not justified. It was a major influence on the KJV. The Douay-Rheims-Challoner is the revised version of the DR, itself strongly influenced by the KJ, trying to make the DR vaguely readable. It remained the official Catholic bible in english until the post-war period, when sane translations were authorised (though the Americans had made their own 'Douay-Rheims' versions by then). Unfortunately, the actual Douay-Rheims seems to be impossible to find online - you have to send money to some crazy conspiracy people to get a copy, or else sign up to Google services]


*for instance, where most translations have "give us this day our daily bread", the DR has "give us this day our supersubstantial bread".

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:45 am 
Avisaru
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For general usage, I prefer the New Revised Standard Edition, which straddles a pretty good line between being readable, and keeping fidelity to the original texts. I'm given to understand it's one of the main translations used in academic settings.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:55 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:48 pm 
Avisaru
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These days I mostly read on my phone, so I have... however many translations are available in the YouVersion app. In physical form, I have at least two KJVs (there might be a third kicking around--I always feel weird about throwing out Bibles, so I don't remember if I actually tossed it or if it's in a box somewhere) and a sort-of KJV. It's a New Scofield, the 1967 edition, the text of which is basically the KJV with minor replacements of particularly incomprehensible words/bad translations. I've also got an NIV from when I was younger; I don't really like the NIV translation much these days (it's just so sterile), and I'm not actually sure where it is.

Like I said, though, I mostly read on my phone, where I primarily read the ESV. I find it pretty easy to read. My standard for readability in translations is that the poetry has to sound like poetry, and the ESV lives up to that standard. I frequently will compare multiple versions (for difficult to translate/difficult to understand passages), and when I do that, I generally look at the ESV, KJV, NKJV, NLT, and NASB. (or at least those appear to be my five most recently opened translations in the app!)

Oh, I've also got a Spanish-English New Testament somewhere. The English is KJV, the Spanish is Reina Valera 1960. And I think I have a Psalms + New Testament in KJV from the Gideons.

EDIT: I suppose if this is of interest to your sort-of survey as well, I'll mention that I've read the entire Bible at least once, but I don't actually remember which translation it was! It was likely the NIV. I've at least read most of the Bible in the KJV, along with large chunks in the ESV. I willingly concede I haven't read most of the minor prophets or Leviticus more than once! I've tried, I swear, but the Mosaic Law is just... really hard to be interested in if you aren't using a study guide or commentary.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:44 am 
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Around the eighties, when I was more involved in this stuff, your translation was likely linked to your denomination and/or zealotry:

fundamentalists - KJV only
evangelicals - NIV if you preferred readability, NAS (New American Standard) if you wanted a more literal translation
mainstream Protestants - RSV (Revised Standard Version)

If you really wanted groovy, simplified, accessible versions: either the Good News Bible or the Living Bible.

Looking at a few sites... the NAS prides itself on being "word for word", which strikes me as a bullshit goal for a translation... but, eh, people get really really uptight about this stuff, and when you've got the Holy Spirit breathing on you, there is supposed to be One Correct Answer for this sort of thing.

I also have a Bible de Jerusalem, which was supposed to be really great, though I forget why.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:31 am 
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NRSV. I picked up a copy of the HarperCollins study bible at a thrift store. I am not terribly impressed with the thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:38 am 
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I got an NRSV as a baptism gift from one of my godparents, and that's the version I have on my phone. I also have a Gideon New Testament and Psalms kicking about but that's all for me (which given I'm 18 is understandable really). My house though has loads of different ones, including a Greek New Testaments because that's what clergy households are like. My home church also has Good News Bibles at the end of many pews and once or twice I've dipped into them to check up on something brought up in the service.

When I was younger I remember particularly liking the Lion Children's Bible, partly because of the illustrations but also how it was actually fairly comprehensive as children's bibles get, including things like Esther and such and such. Also I'm not sure this entirely counts but I did really like the books done by Nick Butterworth and Mick Inkpen (of Percy the Park Keeper fame) retelling the parables like Stories Jesus Told.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:39 am 
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I would suggest a translation of the Samaritan Torah and a translation of the Hebrew Tanakh in order to understand the text better. For example, the term almah doesn't mean virgin but a young woman (or in modern times, teenager). But Christians usually translate it as "virgin" because they see it as a clue to Jesus being the meshiaḥ. I am also of the opinion that the Samaritan Torah preserves some older traditions (like Mount Gerizim vs Mount Ebal)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:49 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:32 pm 
Lebom
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Here's my take on some French translations of the Bible. In my hopeless quest to find the best version, I have bought and sold a number of them. This is a brain dump more than anything else.



For a long time, I was looking for the French equivalent of the King James Version: i.e. the most influential ancient translation. It took me some time to admit that there isn't one. France is, after all, mostly Catholic, and for the Catholic church, the official version was the Latin Vulgate: most French-speaking Catholic intellectuals just read the Vulgate directly. Protestants were too fragmented to generally adopt a single translation (unlike the Reina-Valera in Spanish); instead, they kept making new ones. So, no French version had the same impact as the KJV in English, or the Luther Bible in German; indeed, no version is even in the same league.

Still, some translations have some historical interest.

- Olivetan Bible and revisions

The first widely-read Protestant bible was the Olivetan Bible, released in 1535. It's based on the original Hebrew texts and the Textus Receptus. It does include the Deuterocanonical books (separately, as Apocrypha). Also, it was the first to translate YHWH as "l'Éternel" (the Eternal), which became a tradition in Protestant Bibles.

It had several extensive revisions: the Bible of Geneva in 1560, David Martin's Bible in 1707, and Ostervald's Bible in 1744.

The latest made a surprising comeback in the late XXth Century. Some fundamentalists, certainly influenced by the King James Only movement, began saying that all Bibles not translated from the Textus Receptus were corrupt, and they decided to republish some old translations. An update/revision of Ostervald's Bible was released in 1996, and I did in fact own one at one point.

- Bible de Port-Royal (also known as Lemaître de Sacy)

The first Catholic translation to have a real impact. Finished in 1696, mostly based on the Vulgate. Traditional order, with the Deuterocanonical books included in their logical place. YHWH is rendered as "le Seigneur" (the Lord).

Port-Royal was a place where many intellectuals gathered, notably Blaise Pascal. This Bible was an occasion to apply their theories about the French language.

Some people say it's the most beautiful version of the Bible in French. Personally, I find it a bit too watered down and euphemistic. Besides, I find a bit jarring that everyone uses "vous" when speaking to each other. When talking to God, sure, why not. But parents talking to their children?? This decision was controversial even at the time; in most translations of the Bible, everyone always uses "tu" (as does the KJV with "thou", actually).




- Bible de Jérusalem

Well, I've already talked very much about it. Catholic, traditional order, includes the Deuterocanonical books, uses "Yahvé", faithful yet well-written (if a bit flowery and bombastic at times). Interestingly, it adds subtitles and breaks in places that sometimes differ from the traditional chapters (after all, they were only established in the 13th century, and are far from perfect).

- Louis Segond and revisions

The most widely-used Bible by French-speaking Protestants. Louis Segond released his first edition in 1880, the first French translation based on a critical edition of the New Testament. It only includes the Protestant canon, and YHWH is "l'Éternel". It's supposed to be very faithful to the original texts.

There have been several revisions, the first one in 1910 (probably the most common version). Two in the 1970's, one known as the "Edition de Genève" (it's the one I have), another as the "Bible à la Colombe".

The latest one, released in 2002, is the Nouvelle Bible Segond; supposedly, it's even more faithful to the original texts, though for what I've read, I find the prose a bit kludgy and unwieldy. This one actually switched to "le Seigneur" for YHWH.

Another version is "Segond 21", released in 2007. It's written in a simplified style, more adapted for a younger public or non-native speakers. It's sold at a very affordable price (about 2 euros). Actually, that was the first Bible I bought, but I found it unsatisfying and ended up selling it.

- Chouraqui

I also talked about it before. This is a Jewish translation, in the Jewish order, though it does include the Deuterocanonical books and the New Testament. The aim was to get as close to the original as humanly possible, even if it ends up completely weird.

Unlike other Bibles, all names are transcribed from Hebrew, so it's "Moshé", "Ieroushalaïm" and "Yeshoua" instead of "Moïse", "Jérusalem" and "Jésus". YHWH is "IHVH" with "Adonaï" overlaid on top. This is supposed to reflect the Hebrew text (which has the consonants "YHWH" with the vowels of "Adonai", since that's what you're actually supposed to be saying).

It gets well into crackpot territory for the New Testament: the author tried to reconstruct an Aramaic original, and translated that into French. I keep it around as a curiosity, but I may very well end up selling it.



Some Bibles that I haven't closely looked at, but that I find intriguing.

- Bible du Rabbinat

The first published Jewish translation, first released in 1906. Includes only the Tanakh, in the Jewish order of course. Actually follows the Protestant tradition of translating YHWH as "l'Éternel". A very important release for French Jews, though apart from that, it's apparently not a particularly great translation.

- Traduction œcuménique de la Bible (TOB)

Well, exactly what it says on the tin. This one was made by a team including Catholic, Protestant, and even Orthodox scholars, to make a translation that would be acceptable for all (Jewish scholars were apparently invited but declined). It actually uses the Jewish order, with the Deuterocanonical books separately. The latest edition also added some books only found in Orthodox Bibles: 3 and 4 Esdras, 3 and 4 Maccabees, the Prayer of Manasseh; it's actually the first time these texts have been translated into French in a widely-released book. YHWH becomes "le SEIGNEUR" as the least controversial choice.

- Nouvelle traduction Bayard

This "new translation" caused some controversy back in 2001. It's a cooperation between translators and writers, some of them non-believers, in a deliberate attempt to make the text "new" and more relevant to the current world. Includes the Deuterocanonical books. YHWH is kept as "YHWH". Honestly, what I've seen of it seems a bit too weird-for-the-sake-of-being-weird.

- Traduction officielle liturgique

This recent translation (2013) has been specifically made to be used in Catholic Mass. It's optimized for public reading, avoiding convoluted grammar and possible homophony. If I was a practicing Catholic, I would certainly get one, since it would be the one I'd hear during Mass.

Traditional order with the Deuterocanonical books, of course (we are talking about the Catholic Church). YHWH is "le Seigneur".


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Subsidiary question: how many, and which, catechisms do you have?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:07 pm 
Lebom
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What would people here consider the most accurate translation of the Bible into English?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:07 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:15 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:46 am 
Lebom
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