Venting thread that still excludes eddy (2)

[alynnidalar]

Negative "ought" in general sounds awkward to me... very British/posh. I'd just say "he shouldn't do X" and "he should do X/he'd better do X", normally.

[Viktor77]

"ought not [verb]" sounds... awkward, to my ears. "ought not to [verb]" and "ought to not [verb]" sound better, but I prefer "oughtn't [verb]" overall.

And the grammar book insisted as well on "oughtn't to [verb]." But you're not the first to say that and I agree.

Of course "ought not" is not common, that might very well be the source of the confusion. An analogy with to-less modal verbs from lack of exposure to "ought not."

[Travis B.]

Oughtn't does not really exist in my dialect, but when I do see or hear it used, it is never with to.

[finlay]

Negative "ought" in general sounds awkward to me... very British/posh. I'd just say "he shouldn't do X" and "he should do X/he'd better do X", normally.

Right, as I said to vicky on facebook, this is how I see it. I often tell my students not to use it as it's too old-fashioned or the wrong register, and they all ignore me and try to use it anyway because they've heard being British is sophisticated...

[KathTheDragon]

Negative "ought" in general sounds awkward to me... very British/posh.

Yeah, this is very probably true.

[jmcd]

'ought' is entirely a literary word for me.

[Zju]

So I apparently fell for some very cheap fb scam. I'm usually very wary of what links I click, but that notifications fooker caught me off guard. As soon as I switched back the tabs I saw it has redirected me to a blog called something like h32hn2jnhjkas8d9895njk89 on blogspot.ru (I think). Closed it down ASAP without looking at anything in the page (there didn't seem to be any content anyway) and logged out. I hope I get away without any nasty viruses or unwanted fb activity.

tl;dr fell for the cheapest clickbait in years.

[din]

Check your permissions to see if you inadvertently gave something access to something on Facebook.

[Salmoneus]

"ought not [verb]" sounds... awkward, to my ears. "ought not to [verb]" and "ought to not [verb]" sound better, but I prefer "oughtn't [verb]" overall.

And the grammar book insisted as well on "oughtn't to [verb]." But you're not the first to say that and I agree.

Of course "ought not" is not common, that might very well be the source of the confusion. An analogy with to-less modal verbs from lack of exposure to "ought not."

Your grammar book is right. "Ought not VERB" and "oughtn't VERB" are both wrong to me - they sound... rural? Perhaps I might be able to see a Victorian saying it, but maybe that's just my "victorian upper class = 20th century lower class" rule kicking in (ain't it?). Certainly, in ordinary English I would expect it to always have 'to'.

[Zju]

"ought not [verb]" sounds... awkward, to my ears. "ought not to [verb]" and "ought to not [verb]" sound better, but I prefer "oughtn't [verb]" overall.

And the grammar book insisted as well on "oughtn't to [verb]." But you're not the first to say that and I agree.

Of course "ought not" is not common, that might very well be the source of the confusion. An analogy with to-less modal verbs from lack of exposure to "ought not."

Your grammar book is right. "Ought not VERB" and "oughtn't VERB" are both wrong to me - they sound... rural? Perhaps I might be able to see a Victorian saying it, but maybe that's just my "victorian upper class = 20th century lower class" rule kicking in (ain't it?). Certainly, in ordinary English I would expect it to always have 'to'.

FWIW I was taught to use ought to and ought not to. I don't recall ever seeing it without to.

Check your permissions to see if you inadvertently gave something access to something on Facebook.

If you mean the apps settings panel, I just turned that 'Apps, Websites and Plugins' thing off, I wasn't using it anyway. I guess for now I'll settle with closely monitoring my activity log.

[KathTheDragon]

Actually, thinking about it, I'd say that I would only and always insert "to" after an uncontracted "ought not", while "oughtn't" remains without "to", probably analogically to "shouldn't".

[Viktor77]

I've been complaining lately because I haven't been getting out of the house and being social enough. So tonight I finally do and go to a great party, a réveillon de Noël, talking in French, eating good food, and then I just got completely randomly massively stomach sick. I made the safe decision to immediately leave and go home which was a smart one but damn I hate nothing more than when my stomach prevents me from having a good time....

[jal]

Friday someone decided it was a good idea to collide with my car from behind, while there were five kids in my car. Luckily nobody got hurt, but man... Now I have a temporary replacement car, but the previous owner smoked a lot, so it smells bad :(.


JAL

[schyrsivochter]

Friday someone decided it was a good idea to collide with my car from behined, while there were five kids in my car. Luckily nobody got hurt, but man... Now I have a temporary replacement car, but the previous owner smoked a lot, so it smells bad .

This autumn, we were on holiday in Sweden, in the countryside; our home was on a hill, and there was a gravel road leading down to the main road. On the last day, when we were departing, our car started veering and skidding on the gravel. The car eventually went over the – what’s it called, bank? – on the side of the road, nearly fell over, and fortunately came to a halt in the middle of the path. We were lucky: we didn’t hit a tree, and no one was injured. (Not even the airbags fired, but since we didn’t hit anything head-on, that’s not so implausible.) That left us with the problem of getting home, though. The car was scrap metal, and we still had to get to Malmö, and across Denmark to the ferry at Gedser. Our hosts helped us a lot; they took us to the nearest city, and we were able to rent a car that we could leave in Germany.

So, you see, bad accidents sometimes happen without someone to blame.

[Chagen]

I don't care about anything any more.

I wish I wasn't so fucking weak. My dad has a pistol and ammo. Shit's in an unsecured container, I can walk in and grab both in less than five minutes. All I have to fucking do is just take it when he's gone and blow my fucking brains out all over the wall and it'll all be over. But I wont, because I'm a weak fuck who thinks this shit is gonna get better.

I'm not posting this to receive any support. No amount will make up for the hollow fucking hole in my soul right now--I don't even mean that in a bad way or to insult you guys, it's just that I'm about to slip off into the edge of no return here. There's only one kind of medication that will help me right now and it's made of metal.

Now watch as I don't do it anyway because I'm a wimp. I wish I had the conviction to just fucking do it already. Being dead sounds a hell of a lot better than being homeless or suffering in this bullshit economy just to fucking eat.

[jmcd]

No, the reason you don't do that is because you're strong enough to realise there's hope.

[Travis B.]

Things can always get better, no matter how much one thinks they won't. Of course it may take quite a deal of time, and almost certainly won't be easy along the way, but it still indeed can get better. Right now, though, you probably can only perceive how things are today, or just maybe tomorrow, so being told that things will get better will mean nothing to you now. But still, do not think of this as cowardice; rather it is the very lack of will to do something about things right here and now which allows one to wait until things do, eventually, get better.

[Chagen]

It doesn't get better. It really doesn't.

You are white, yes? Then it's hard for you to understand. I'm just going to be blunt here. As a person of color my experiences are much different. I'm tired of always not talking about them. I don't really have the energy to go in detail, especially when you'll just brush aside all of my experiences and call me the racist for daring to fucking talk about racism.

Depression wont kill me, White America will.

[Travis B.]

But it isn't racism that is the matter here, as much as you insist that it is. The reason why is because there are so many other black people out there, who are subject to the same racism as you, yet most of them aren't suicidal. So what is different between you and them, if racism isn't the difference? Depression is the most likely difference, and while racism may be unlikely to change, depression is likely to change, as much as it may seem permanent because of how depression tends to make the present seem permanent no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.

[Foolster41]

Chagen: If you are serious about wanting to kill or hurt yourself, please promise me first if you're in the US you will call 1-800-273-8255. (If not, there are numbers available)

People here are right, it can get better.

[jal]

Now watch as I don't do it anyway because I'm a wimp.

Just out of curiosity, but have you ever sought professional help? Also, being scared to die isn't making you a coward, it's a sign some part of you isn't giving up yet.


JAL

[Travis B.]

Chagen: If you are serious about wanting to kill or hurt yourself, please promise me first if you're in the US you will call 1-800-273-8255. (If not, there are numbers available)

People here are right, it can get better.

To be honest, though, just because someone is suicidal does not mean they want to be nagged into talking to some stranger on some random phone number. (One may very well prefer talking to someone they know themselves. Also, it should be noted that one may hide it specfically because one does not want to get nagged about it - but in this case Chagen has clearly come here to talk about it, or otherwise he would not have posted. Therefore it is better to talk to him here rather than to nag him to call some random phone number, especially since next time he may not come here if all we do is tell him to "call somebody".)

[Foolster41]

Chagen: If you are serious about wanting to kill or hurt yourself, please promise me first if you're in the US you will call 1-800-273-8255. (If not, there are numbers available)

People here are right, it can get better.

To be honest, though, just because someone is suicidal does not mean they want to be nagged into talking to some stranger on some random phone number. (One may very well prefer talking to someone they know themselves. Also, it should be noted that one may hide it specfically because one does not want to get nagged about it - but in this case Chagen has clearly come here to talk about it, or otherwise he would not have posted. Therefore it is better to talk to him here rather than to nag him to call some random phone number, especially since next time he may not come here if all we do is tell him to "call somebody".)

I'm not trying to "nag", and I don't think I am nagging any more than anyone else here. I was concerned about Chagen actually harming themself, and was thinking the hotline would help. You have a good point about friend/family maybe being preferable to strangers. All I was suggesting is they talk to someone about this, be it a friend, family member, a doctor or someone on a hotline who is trained t talk about this.

[Chagen]

I...I feel better now. I don't want to kill myself. But I fear the thoughts will come back.

[Travis B.]

Have you sought help for this? And if not, why don't you? Especially since, as you say, it may very well come back - and you are better off doing something about this now, rather than waiting until this happens again to do so.