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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:07 pm 
Lebom
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I've seen a few posts here about software which does sound changes, and it strikes me that it would be useful to incorporate an SCA into a larger program which manages vocabulary in a more general way. Such a program could also do useful things with conjugation and declension, semantic categories, loanwords, and so on, and let you know when the reflexes of words don't agree with the output from the sound-changes. So, here's a thread for y'all to say what your ideal program would do. Maybe some of the ZBB's more capable programmers could even get together and try to write it :-)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:35 pm 
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has been attempted. has not been attempted successfully. I plant to learn to program somewhen before I die, and It'll probably be one of the projects of such an endeavour

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Programmers are like economists. Put 5 in a room with a problem and they'll come up with 7 opinions on how to solve it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:51 pm 
Avisaru
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Drydic wrote:
Programmers are like economists. Put 5 in a room with a problem and they'll come up with 7 opinions on how to solve it.

This is exactly why I hate programming with other people. I'm the only person who's actually ever right about the best solution{!}

The other reason, of course, is that most of the other programmers I know think that Java is a good idea.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:04 pm 
Avisaru
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Java is a good idea for certain things.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:27 pm 
Avisaru
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Inversion wrote:
Java is a good idea for certain things.

You realize I can't take you seriously anymore. Oh wait...

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Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:24 am 
Avisaru
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I was actually working on a web app to do this—the idea was that it'd be a one-stop shop for universe construction, with dictionaries existing as special pages in a wiki-like interface, as well as articles and checklists for helping novices get started. Applying sound changes would automatically create a new searchable, structured dictionary for you that you could then go in and edit. There would also be group access controls and MediaWiki-like discussion pages, so you could collaborate with others.

Given the plethora of conworld and conlang wikis already out there, though, it didn't seem like there was much demand, so we never got around to any of the SCA or checklist stuff. An AJAX-based MUCK where people could bring their conworlds' locations to life was also completed, but the inherent dead-weight-to-actively-used-areas ratio made it somewhat unappealing to maintain. The idea that it would mostly end up full of abandoned stubs and fleeting thoughts was also somewhat discouraging.

Other than the MUCK, the parts that were written are still in use, but with registration disabled. The Thet information at Celestial Mechanics shows off the idea; here's an example of a dictionary. Since the LCK and WCK already cover a lot of ground, the checklist idea turned into an irregular blog with some advice for building plausible hard sf worlds.

But that being said, we never actually asked if there was demand for any of this stuff; it just seemed unnecessary with how well-developed other conlang wikis are. How much demand is there?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:15 am 
Avisaru
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Wasn't there recently a thread on this in C&C?

Oh wait, yes: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42066


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:25 am 
Lebom
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JCD wrote:
Wasn't there recently a thread on this in C&C?

Oh wait, yes: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42066


That started before I joined...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:07 am 
Avisaru
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araceli wrote:
JCD wrote:
Wasn't there recently a thread on this in C&C?

Oh wait, yes: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42066


That started before I joined...


So not very long ago at all, is what you're saying.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:12 am 
Smeric
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No, that isn't what he's saying. It started in July, it's now November. That is a fair amount of time ago however you look at it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:24 am 
Avisaru
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Drydic wrote:
No, that isn't what he's saying. It started in July, it's now November. That is a fair amount of time ago however you look at it.


It was last posted in very recently, though. And still on the first page of C&C. But I digress.


I started a tool in python for conlangers where you define a bunch of things in a plaintext file and can then perform various operations on that file via command line. I should still have that code *somewhere* if anyone is interested in improving it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:17 pm 
Lebom
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Drydic wrote:
No, that isn't what he's saying.


"He"?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:16 pm 
Smeric
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Yes, there are no girls on the internet. we're on to you, buddy :P
Drydic, araceli is female -most likely-

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:39 pm 
Smeric
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araceli wrote:
Drydic wrote:
No, that isn't what he's saying.


"He"?

My bad. Internet assumption.

Fuck I feel old now ><

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:04 pm 
Lebom
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Torco wrote:
Yes, there are no girls on the internet. we're on to you, buddy :P
Drydic, araceli is female -most likely-


Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:01 am 
Smeric
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Would be fun to do one in brainfuck. Would be more fun to saw off both legs without painkillers.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:45 pm 
Avisaru
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Herr Dunkel wrote:
Would be fun to do one in brainfuck. Would be more fun to saw off both legs without painkillers.


I am reminded that, once again, no matter the field, there is always a joke that a novice will make in order to appear witty and well-informed.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:49 pm 
Smeric
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Rhetorica wrote:
Herr Dunkel wrote:
Would be fun to do one in brainfuck. Would be more fun to saw off both legs without painkillers.


I am reminded that, once again, no matter the field, there is always a joke that a novice will make in order to appear witty and well-informed.

Code:
>+<+[>[>[-]+<-]>[<+>>+++++++++++++++[>++++++>++>+++++>+++<<<<-]>-.>>++++.<<----.>++.>----.+++.+.<<++.>.<.>>-------.-------.<<---.>>>-.<<.<+++++.----------.++++++.>.>+++.<<------.>.>+++++.<<+++++.>.>.+++++.<.>------------.<<--.>>-.++++++++.<<----.>>---.<<+++++++.>>---.++++++++.<.>--.+++++.<<--.+.>>---------.----.+++.>++.<<.>+++++.<<.>+++++++.<-.>-------.<+.+.---.>>.<<----.>>--.>-.<----.<<+.--.+++.----.>>++.<<++++++++.>>.>-.<<.<-.----.>.<++++++++.>>+++.<<++.>.<-----.>>.---.<.>+.<<+.>>---.++++++++.<.>+++.+.<<-.<++++++++++.,]]

Edit:

Code:
>+<+[>[>[-]+<-]>[<+>>+++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.-------.>----.>-.<-------.<.>>.<<----.>-.+++++++.----.>.<<.+++..>>.<+++++.<++++.-------.>.>.<<++++++++.>>.<<--------.>-------.>.<<++.>++++++++.---..<++.>----.++++++.<+++++++.>+++++.>.<--.-----.<---.>++.<.+++++.-------.>>.<<------.>------.>.<<.+++.>++++++++.<+.>--------.++++++.+.---.<.>>.<<++.------.>-----.<++++.>>.<<++++.>+.>.<<-------.>++++.<-.++++++++.>----.<---.>+++++++.<---.++++++++.>>>.<.<<--.>>>-----.<<<++++.>>.<<-------.>.<++++++..>++++.>.<<-----------.>--.<.>-----.<++++.>>.<---.<+.>>.<++++++++.<++.-------.>---.>.<<++++++++.>.>.<<-----.>-----.<+.>++++.>.<<----.>-----.<+++.>>.<<++++.>+.++++++++.>.<<+.>---.>.<<-----.>-----.<+.>++++.>.<<++++.>+.>>+++++++.<.<<.>>.<<++++.----.--.+.>.>.<<++++++.+.>.>.<<----.+++.+.>+++.>.<<--------------.>>.<<+++++.>--.<---.++++++++.--.+++++.-------.>>.<<+++++.+++.>-.>.<<--------------.+.>-----.++++++.-.>.<-----.+++++.<++++++.---.>--.>.<------.<----.>++.<++++++.>+++++++.<------.++++++.--.>--.>.<<---.>++.-.>.<+++.<++++++.---.+++++++++.>>.<<-----.>---.>.<<------.>-----.--.<++.>++++++.>.<+.-----.>.<<---.>+++.<-.++++++++.>----.<---.>+++++++.<---.++++++++.>>>--.<.<<+++++.-.---.---.>-.<----.+++++++.>+++++.>.<<-----.++++++++.>>.<<---------.+++++++++.+++.----.-----.------.--.>-----.<++++.>>.<+++++.----------.++++++.---.+.<.+++++++.------.>>.<<+++.+++++.>>.<<++.>-.<-------.>++++.<--------.>--.<++++.<++++++++++.,]]


Rhetorica pls get on my level

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Last edited by Herr Dunkel on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:35 pm 
Avisaru
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Sigh. Done.

Code:
[-]>[-]<
>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<+++.
>++++[<++++>-]<++++.
>+++[<--->-]<++.
>++++[<++++>-]<+++.
>+++++++++[<--------->-]<---.
>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<++++.
>+++[<+++>-]<++.
>+++[<--->-]<-.
>++++[<++++>-]<--.
>+++++++++[<--------->-]<--.
>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.
+.
>++[<++>-]<+.
>+++++++++[<--------->-]<---.
>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<----.
>+++[<--->-]<---.
>+++[<+++>-]<+.
>++[<-->-]<--.
>++++++++[<-------->-]<-----.
>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<++++++++.
>+++[<--->-]<-.
>++[<++>-]<++.
>+++++++++[<--------->-]<----.
>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.
>++++++++[<-------->-]<-.
>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+++++++.
>+++[<+++>-]<-.
.
>+++[<--->-]<--.
>++++++++[<-------->-]<----.
>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<-.
>+++[<--->-]<--.
>++++[<++++>-]<---.
+.
----.
-.
>++++++++[<-------->-]<.
>++++[<---->-]<++.
>++++++[<++++++>-]<---.
>+++++++[<+++++++>-]<------.
>+++[<+++>-]<--.
----.
>+++++++[<------->-]<----.
>+++++[<----->-]<-.
>+++++++[<+++++++>-]<+++.
>++++[<++++>-]<+.
>++++[<++++>-]<---.
>++++[<---->-]<+++.
>+++++[<+++++>-]<----.
>++++[<---->-]<-.
>++++++[<------>-]<------.
>++++++[<------>-]<+++++.
>+++++++[<+++++++>-]<+.
>++++[<++++>-]<+++.
----.
>+++[<+++>-]<++.
.
>++++[<++++>-]<---.
>++++++++[<-------->-]<++++++.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:50 pm 
Smeric
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Code:
>+<+[>[>[-]+<-]>[<+>>+++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>.>---.-.>-.<------.<+++.++++.>++++++.<-.---.>--.>.<<-.>---.<+.>++++.>.<------.++++++++++++.>.<<.----.>-------.------.---.----.+++++++++++++.>.<+.+.<.>.<++++.>-------.<.>+.++++++.>.<-------.<----.>--.<++++.>>.<++.<.>>.<<----.>>.<<+.-.+++.>>.<++.-.<+.>>>++.<.<<----.>.<+++.>>.<+++++++++++.<+.>------.>>--.<.<<++++.+++++.----------.+..-.>>.<+.<+.>--.<.>++++++++.<++++.>>>.<.<---.<-.-------.>---.>.<<++.--.>------.>.<-----.>.<++++++++++.<.>++++++.>>[-]<[-]<[-]<[-]<++++++++++.[-]++++++++++++++++[>++++>+++++>+++>++<<<<-]>+.>----.+++++++.----.>----.>.<<+++++.<+++++++.-------.>.>>.<<----.++.---.<++++++.>+++.<------.>-----..<++++.>>>.<<+++++++.<.>--.-----.----.+++++.<----.>++++++.<++++.>-.>>.<<.++++.<++++.---.>---.<++++++.>+++++.>>.<<<+++.-.>>>.<<<-.>.>>.<<<++.---------..++++++.---.+++++.---------.>>>.<<<++++.+++++.>-----.<---------.>--.--.++.<.>++.<.>--.>.>.<<+++++++.----------.++++++.>>.<<<++++++++.----.--.+.>-.>>.<<+++.<-------.>---------..<.>>>.<<-----.+++++.<++.>--.+++++++++.<+.+.>>>.<<<----.>-------.>>.<<-----.+++++.++.+++++.-.>>.<<--.<++++.>-.++++.<.>--.+.>>.<<<----.>.>>.<<.<+++++++.---.>>>.<<<.>------.<-.>>>.<<<---.>+++++.>>.<<<++++++++.>>>.<<<-.-------.>+++.<++++.>>>.<<<-.>-------.-.<+.>>>[-]<[-]<[-]<[-]<++++++++++.[-],]]


Edit:
Back on topic, it is possible to make an inflection engine in Brainfuck, and I can see how it can be done, but it will require a staggering amount of coding and it would be language specific. To make it a language-neutral conlanging tool would require quite a lot more coding than the previous case. It can be done but it'd probably require LSD levels of creativity.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:45 pm 
Avisaru
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Well of course it is, just like any other Turing tarpit. It's just a wildly bad idea.

I'd actually like to get my hands on JCD's code from the other thread, so I can translate it into Octavia and add it to the CM site. That should fulfil most user needs.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:00 pm 
Lebom
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Obviously, some people have too much free time on their hands!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:19 pm 
Smeric
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araceli wrote:
Obviously, some people have too much free time on their hands!

in reference to?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:22 pm 
Smeric
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Being the stubborn donkey I am, I've taken to writing a verb conjugator for Kti in Brainfuck. Will report on progress.

Drydic wrote:
araceli wrote:
Obviously, some people have too much free time on their hands!

in reference to?

Probably me, possibly also Rhetorica.

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