The Innovative Usage Thread

[Melteor]

Since Spanish ajeno is aliè -ena in Catalan I suggest to use alien (adj) in English.

But "alien money" doesn't meant "other people's money", it means "E.T.'s money"...

Yeah, like this:

[imghttp://www.impactlab.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... 82.jpg/img]

Bank of Chthulhu, where the money really is backed in flesh-pound standard.

[linguoboy]

Overheard today: "Eggnog latte? That's where my face is at!"

[Melteor]

Overheard today: "Eggnog latte? That's where my face is at!"

Lolz

My native Greek engineer-cum-professor called 'the area in-between highways where cops hide to catch you speeding' a road island.

[Radius Solis]

SURVEY TIME!

I'd like to ask y'all for grammaticality judgements on three descriptions of a situation.

The situation: I have removed some food from the freezer so that it will warm up on the countertop, which it is now doing. I am describing this state of affairs to someone by saying:

a) It's thawing.
b) It's unthawing.
c) It's thawing out.

It would be nice if responses for each take the form of one of these options: preferred, acceptable, dispreferred, unacceptable - for the meaning given above - in addition to anything else you care to say. Thanks!

This is related to a matter I'm discussing with Mr. Liberman in the comments of a current Language Log post. Feel free to go read me analyzing my usage of un- into intractable knots, but if it were me I'd pass.

[ol bofosh]

The situation: I have removed some food from the freezer so that it will warm up on the countertop, which it is now doing. I am describing this state of affairs to someone by saying:

a) It's thawing. - preferred
b) It's unthawing. - unnacceptable
c) It's thawing out. - acceptable

A phrase more natural for me is to say "left out to thaw" in these circumstances.

Also I have an intrusive r in thawing: [ˈθɔː.ɹˠɪŋ], which is not labialised.
Compare with hypothetical thoring: [ˈθɔː.ɹʷˠɪŋ], which is labialised.

[----]

a) It's thawing.
b) It's unthawing.
c) It's thawing out.

a) acceptable, I wouldn't really see it as weird
b) no, never. -unacceptable
c) preferred.

[Imralu]

a) It's thawing. - preferred
b) It's unthawing. - unacceptable
c) It's thawing out. - dispreferred

For me, 'thaw out' is transitive, so 'I'm thawing it out' is just as good as option a).

My native Greek engineer-cum-professor called 'the area in-between highways where cops hide to catch you speeding' a road island.

That seems perfectly natural to me. For me, a road island is smaller and doesn't stretch along the road for a long distance, but I don't really know what to call that strip between highways.

This is a road island.


The official name is refuge island...


... but I always read it as 'refugee island' ... and obviously I'm not the only one.

[faiuwle]

a) It's thawing. - acceptable
b) It's unthawing. - acceptable
c) It's thawing out. - preferred

I know "unthaw" is technically wrong for some definition of un-, but it's still acceptable meaning "thaw" IMD - I think un- sometimes now has a meaning more like becoming less ordered or reverting from some unnaturally induced state rather than simply reversing whatever word it's attached to.

[Shm Jay]

a) It's thawing. preferred
b) It's unthawing. unacceptable
c) It's thawing out. Acceptable only if the word "out" is emphasized. If you say "It's *thawing* out", it sounds like you're describing the weather, with "out" meaning "outdoors. Cf. "It's freezing out".

[linguoboy]

My mom on the phone to my sister, Christmas Eve Day: "Don't wait dinner, I'll be there in fifteen minutes."

Also, Vt the shit out of NP seems to be transitioning from nonce slang to general colloquial extension. A few years back, I would've said it was basically limited to the verbs "beat" and "scare" (and their close synonyms, e.g. "pound", "slap"). But verbs I've seen it with recently include "watch", "wear", "emote", "appropriate", "miss", and--a twofer--"phoenix".

[Radius Solis]

My own answers would be:
a) thawing - dispreferred
b) unthawing - preferred
c) thawing out - acceptable

I know my usage is different that most people's. Sometimes I get funny looks for saying "unthaw"; I don't think I ever much use "thaw" without either 1. an un- prefix or 2. a paired "out". Using it naked like that feels vaguely disturbing and wrong and I notice it every single time anyone says it.

Nevertheless, a clear pattern shows up in the responses. A simple sum of everyone's answers, giving +2 and +1 for preferred and acceptable, and -1 and -2 for dispreferred and unacceptable, yields:
a) +7
b) -7
c) +6

The main thing I wanted to find out was how much variation there was; it's obvious that there is some, but apparently not so much that my usage isn't anomalous.

But who cares. I'm going to keep saying the shit out of "unthaw" and maybe it will catch on better.

[Nortaneous]

Also, Vt the shit out of NP seems to be transitioning from nonce slang to general colloquial extension. A few years back, I would've said it was basically limited to the verbs "beat" and "scare" (and their close synonyms, e.g. "pound", "slap"). But verbs I've seen it with recently include "watch", "wear", "emote", "appropriate", "miss", and--a twofer--"phoenix".

at this point it's p much an intensifier for transitive verbs yes

[Shm Jay]

The problem is that "unthaw" logically means "freeze".

[Vuvuzela]

a) It's thawing.-preferred
b) It's unthawing.-acceptable
c) It's thawing out.-acceptable
In both of the "acceptable" cases, I'd understand what the person was saying but as likely as not make some stupid joke like:
b) Oh, so you've found some way to reverse the proess of thawing?
c) As opposed to thawing in?
But I do this annoyingly often, and sometimes find myself using phrases that I've ridiculed in this way.

The problem is that "unthaw" logically means "freeze".

I think Rad said that the point of this was to analyse the use of the prefix "un-" in English, though.

[TzirTzi]

SURVEY TIME!

a) It's thawing. - acceptable
b) It's unthawing. - unacceptable
c) It's thawing out. - acceptable

d) it's defrosting - preferred

[Viktor77]

I never knew this but in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the Yoopers of Finnish decent still pronounce (and use) "sauna" using the Finnish pronunciation (and according to Finnish tradition).

[linguoboy]

I never knew this but in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the Yoopers of Finnish decent still pronounce (and use) "sauna" using the Finnish pronunciation (and according to Finnish tradition).

That's not an innovation; it's a retention.

[Kereb]

SURVEY TIME!

a) It's thawing.
acceptable
b) It's unthawing.
NO. KILL IT WITH BEES.
c) It's thawing out.
acceptable.

though I would probably say I was "thawing out" something, and that the thing itself was just "thawing". But that might be the Gremlin talking

i'm thawing out some ground beef
the beef is thawing

hmm....

[Viktor77]

I never knew this but in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the Yoopers of Finnish decent still pronounce (and use) "sauna" using the Finnish pronunciation (and according to Finnish tradition).

That's not an innovation; it's a retention.

Fine. I'll start The Retention Thread.

[Astraios]

NO. KILL IT WITH BEES.

I love this.

[TzirTzi]

To add a different angle, what about if it was the freezer you were warming up (e.g. in order to be able to clean it) instead of the food from the freezer? My answers remain the same, but my gf reports different verb preferences for these two situations.

[Hakaku]

a) It's thawing - weird
b) It's unthawing - acceptable
c) It's thawing out - acceptable

Realistically, I think I would use "unthawing" when talking, but "thawing out" is perfectly fine otherwise. However, to me, you can talk about the soil of a muskeg as "thawing", but you can only talk about an item removed from the freezer as "thawing out" or "unthawing", never as just *thawing.

[Viktor77]

Boontling from Boonville, CA. Look it up, it's like a living conlang.

[Shrdlu]

It would have been a lot cooler if the core came from Pomoan instead of the other way around.

[Viktor77]

Colombians: Why [dZa.ki.ra] and not [Sa.ki.ra] for Shakira?