Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
In the Pathfinder Chronicles tabletop rpg setting, there's a criminal organization known as the Sczarni. They're associated with the Varisians, who are more-or-less fantasy counterparts to the Roma people, with a lot of generic Hollywood eastern-Europeanisms thrown in. As a game written by English-speakers for a predominantly English-speaking audience, names of people and places in the setting are, for the most part, pronounced as one would expect them to be in English, even when they are clearly borrowed from a language with a significantly different phonology.
"-arni," therefore, is naturally pronounced as either [ɑɹni] or [ɑːni], depending on what part of the Anglosphere you happen to be from. "Scz-," on the other hand, defies straightforward analysis, but the developer has stated that it's meant to be pronounced as [zk]. This piqued my curiosity, and I've spent a little time digging around on Wikipedia looking at orthographies, trying to find some justification for the odd spelling. I was interested to see if the word had any real-world pseudo-etymology, but so far I'm drawing a blank
So, does anybody know of a Latin alphabet orthography under which the intial cluster written <scz> would be pronounced as [zk]?
"-arni," therefore, is naturally pronounced as either [ɑɹni] or [ɑːni], depending on what part of the Anglosphere you happen to be from. "Scz-," on the other hand, defies straightforward analysis, but the developer has stated that it's meant to be pronounced as [zk]. This piqued my curiosity, and I've spent a little time digging around on Wikipedia looking at orthographies, trying to find some justification for the odd spelling. I was interested to see if the word had any real-world pseudo-etymology, but so far I'm drawing a blank
So, does anybody know of a Latin alphabet orthography under which the intial cluster written <scz> would be pronounced as [zk]?
- Hallow XIII
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Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
No, it is just D&D being D&D. The only orthography I know of where <scz> might possibly mean anything is Polish (maybe Hungarian?) but I am not sure [sts`] is an allowable cluster.
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- Lebom
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Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
It is.Hallow XIII wrote:The only orthography I know of where <scz> might possibly mean anything is Polish (maybe Hungarian?) but I am not sure [sts`] is an allowable cluster.
Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Really? I always thought sibilant clusters in Polish assimilated. In any case that's definitely not Hungarian. <cz> doesn't mean anything special in that language, and even if it did occur, it would be pronounced [ts:].
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Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Really. They do assimilate most of the time, but they don't have to: sczepić, sczernieć, sczerstwieć, sczeznąć, sczytać.Theta wrote:Really? I always thought sibilant clusters in Polish assimilated.
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Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
There isn't one.CatDoom wrote:So, does anybody know of a Latin alphabet orthography under which the intial cluster written <scz> would be pronounced as [zk]?
There might be an obscure historical one where <scz> [sk] makes sense, but the developers almost certainly aren't familiar with it if it exists.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Not terribly surprising, but even so, thanks everybody!
If I had to guess, I'd assume that somebody just liked the look of Polish words like the one's Aino Meilani brought up, and pretty much pulled the pronunciation out of thin air.
If I had to guess, I'd assume that somebody just liked the look of Polish words like the one's Aino Meilani brought up, and pretty much pulled the pronunciation out of thin air.
Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Maybe it's really Szczarni -- and we all know how to pronounce that.
Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
Hmm, there is a word in Polish that is similar: czarni [ts̠aɾɲi], meaning "the black ones".
sczechizować/sczeszczyć — to fully czechize
sczepiać — to link/glue together
sczernieć — to fully become black
sczerstwieć — to fully become stale
sczerwienieć — to fully become red
sczesać — to comb off
sczeznąć — to fully die/vanish
sczochrać — to fully tousle
sczytywać — to read out
Hmm, there is a handful of Polish words beginning with scz- — most of them being derivations — i.a.:Theta wrote:Really? I always thought sibilant clusters in Polish assimilated. In any case that's definitely not Hungarian. <cz> doesn't mean anything special in that language, and even if it did occur, it would be pronounced [ts:].
sczechizować/sczeszczyć — to fully czechize
sczepiać — to link/glue together
sczernieć — to fully become black
sczerstwieć — to fully become stale
sczerwienieć — to fully become red
sczesać — to comb off
sczeznąć — to fully die/vanish
sczochrać — to fully tousle
sczytywać — to read out
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If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
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Re: Odd Cluster/Orthography Question
And this is why I am a conworlding snob.CatDoom wrote:Not terribly surprising, but even so, thanks everybody!
If I had to guess, I'd assume that somebody just liked the look of Polish words like the one's Aino Meilani brought up, and pretty much pulled the pronunciation out of thin air.
陳第 wrote:蓋時有古今,地有南北;字有更革,音有轉移,亦勢所必至。
Read all about my excellent conlangsR.Rusanov wrote:seks istiyorum
sex want-PRS-1sg
Basic Conlanging Advice