It "isn't a traditional zone for language isolates" just in the sense that there's only one language isolate (plus a couple in the historical period). Which turns that argument into "Western Europe has 1 isolate, therefore Western Europe should not have 1 isolate".R.Rusanov wrote:I think he rather meant that Western Europe isn't a traditional zone for language isolates, unlike say the Laotian highland or Papua New Guinea.
If natlangs were conlangs...
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be said, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
– The Gospel of Thomas
– The Gospel of Thomas
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Kind of: more like if i didn't know basque was a natlang, then i'd think western europe has no isolates, and when presented with an isolate in western europe, i'd go "ah, come on, really?"
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Iaai looks normal compared to dGudzong Tibetan, which has, in addition to voiceless and voiced fricatives at all seven places of articulation, voiceless nasals and resonants, and a full set of front rounded vowels contrasting with back unrounded vowels, preaspirated and postaspirated fricatives.
And when I say preaspirated and postaspirated I mean both at the same time.
There are four tones, but no known minimal pairs between the tones.
And when I say preaspirated and postaspirated I mean both at the same time.
There are four tones, but no known minimal pairs between the tones.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Interesting, I'll mention that to some Gaelic speakers... oh wait.R.Rusanov wrote:An interesting point I will make here is that highland, herding populations resist language assimilation very well.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Yeah, but how many possessives does it have?Nortaneous wrote:Iaai looks normal compared to dGudzong Tibetan, which has, in addition to voiceless and voiced fricatives at all seven places of articulation, voiceless nasals and resonants, and a full set of front rounded vowels contrasting with back unrounded vowels, preaspirated and postaspirated fricatives.
And when I say preaspirated and postaspirated I mean both at the same time.
There are four tones, but no known minimal pairs between the tones.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
The Gaels got highland-clearanced away. Genocide does tend to invalidate the model, yes.
Slava, čĭstŭ, hrabrostĭ!
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Please stop talking about any subject which you don't know anything about. Which appears to be any subject but slavistics. Maybe.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Batshit language?
Avestan. Little else to say.
Avestan. Little else to say.
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
http://www.dazzlejunction.com/greetings/thanks/thank-you-bear.gif
Sincerely,
sano
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
The Salishan languages. Whose idea was it to have syllabic fricatives?
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Same goes for Miyako.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
What do these two phrases have to do with each other?Adjective Recoil wrote:The Salishan languages. Whose idea was it to have syllabic fricatives?
But to answer your question, east asian langs is who.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
How many East Asian languages even have syllabic fricatives? Naxi, Yi, and Miyako are the only ones I can think of, unless you count the apical vowel, which adds Mandarin and Lisu. Apparently Hlepho Phowa has the apical vowel and syllabic /v/, though the latter contrasts only marginally with ɯ, which may be realized as a syllabic fricative or with significant labiodental frication -- like Nias, where the high vowel /u/ is often realized with labiodentalization instead of rounding.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
I was counting the apical vowel, but I can add Okinawan to the list with [f̩] (please do not ask me about phonemicity, I think the source claimed it was but I can't remember where I found the paper anymore).Nortaneous wrote:How many East Asian languages even have syllabic fricatives? Naxi, Yi, and Miyako are the only ones I can think of, unless you count the apical vowel, which adds Mandarin and Lisu. Apparently Hlepho Phowa has the apical vowel and syllabic /v/, though the latter contrasts only marginally with ɯ, which may be realized as a syllabic fricative or with significant labiodental frication -- like Nias, where the high vowel /u/ is often realized with labiodentalization instead of rounding.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Arabic. Why do the newbs always try to make a triconsonantal root system. ugh
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire WippwoAbi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
More like Holy shit a noob got a triconsonantal language RIGHT FOR ONCE!!!.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
This raises the question: if the original triconsonantal natlangs were conlangs, where's the precedent for how to do them correctly come from?
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE
ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)
Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?
#define FEMALE
ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)
Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Arabic's too regular to be right.Nessari wrote:More like Holy shit a noob got a triconsonantal language RIGHT FOR ONCE!!!.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
Iau.
"Whoah, look how many different tones are used in natlangs! I think I'm going to put them all into one language! Also, more than one tone can be on a vowel. Whatever that means.
Hmm... not kitchen-sinky enough; let's add nasalization, but *only* put it on /a/, so it's not phonemic.
Hmm, still not kitchen-sinky enough. Let's give it three varieties of /i/, one of which is actually fricated, but not include any /e/.
Hmm, still not a KSL. Let's give it only six consonants. Also, allophones are cool, so /f/ is going to have allophones of /h~x~p/, because that totally makes sense rite?"
"Whoah, look how many different tones are used in natlangs! I think I'm going to put them all into one language! Also, more than one tone can be on a vowel. Whatever that means.
Hmm... not kitchen-sinky enough; let's add nasalization, but *only* put it on /a/, so it's not phonemic.
Hmm, still not kitchen-sinky enough. Let's give it three varieties of /i/, one of which is actually fricated, but not include any /e/.
Hmm, still not a KSL. Let's give it only six consonants. Also, allophones are cool, so /f/ is going to have allophones of /h~x~p/, because that totally makes sense rite?"
퇎
Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.
Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
The languages of Europe all seem rather European, what with all the voiced fricatives and voicing as the only phonation distinction and whatnot. Not that there's anything wrong with that IF that's what you're trying to do. It's just that we don't know whether this was a conscious choice or the result of blind ignorance (sadly, the latter is all too often the case).
The creator of the languages of Europe may wish to consult this thread to get some ideas flowing.
The creator of the languages of Europe may wish to consult this thread to get some ideas flowing.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
This is turning into the Tautology Thread rather rapidly.
Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
We should actually make that thread.
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
ObsequiousNewt wrote:Iau.
"Whoah, look how many different tones are used in natlangs! I think I'm going to put them all into one language! Also, more than one tone can be on a vowel. Whatever that means.
Hmm... not kitchen-sinky enough; let's add nasalization, but *only* put it on /a/, so it's not phonemic.
Hmm, still not kitchen-sinky enough. Let's give it three varieties of /i/, one of which is actually fricated, but not include any /e/.
Hmm, still not a KSL. Let's give it only six consonants. Also, allophones are cool, so /f/ is going to have allophones of /h~x~p/, because that totally makes sense rite?"
Well, now you've got me curious, but it seems there are multiple languages called Lau. Which is it?
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/What kind of cookie?
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
<iau> is different from <Lau>Nesescosac wrote:ObsequiousNewt wrote:Iau.
"Whoah, look how many different tones are used in natlangs! I think I'm going to put them all into one language! Also, more than one tone can be on a vowel. Whatever that means.
Hmm... not kitchen-sinky enough; let's add nasalization, but *only* put it on /a/, so it's not phonemic.
Hmm, still not kitchen-sinky enough. Let's give it three varieties of /i/, one of which is actually fricated, but not include any /e/.
Hmm, still not a KSL. Let's give it only six consonants. Also, allophones are cool, so /f/ is going to have allophones of /h~x~p/, because that totally makes sense rite?"
Well, now you've got me curious, but it seems there are multiple languages called Lau. Which is it?
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Re: If natlangs were conlangs...
I also thought it was <L> not <i>.
It was about time I changed this.