Looking for sound changes
Re: Looking for sound changes
As you're quite likely aware, many dialects of English in North America have /d/ /t/ > [ɾ] / V_V . I could see a similar change becoming contrastive.
(aka vbegin)
Re: Looking for sound changes
Is
ʍ/x/_#
attested anywhere...or at least look plausible?
ʍ/x/_#
attested anywhere...or at least look plausible?
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
- KathTheDragon
- Smeric
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Re: Looking for sound changes
That should go to the Sound Change Quickie thread.
Re: Looking for sound changes
I looked for it and couldn't find it. :/
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Looking for sound changes
I dimly remember it too. If all else fails, you could always look through Dolgopolsky's Nostratic dictionary.Chengjiang wrote:I don't know much about Afro-Asiatic outside of Semitic, so it's quite possible I'm wrong about this, but I thought there were some correspondences between implosives in some branches of Afro-Asiatic and ejectives in others. I thought Chadic implosives corresponded at least in part with ejective consonants in some other branches of the family, for instance. I'm having trouble finding a paper that examines this subject directly, though. Tell me, guys: Am I dimly remembering something genuine or is it a load of bollocks?
Re: Looking for sound changes
If you want completely nonsensical changes resulting in velar stops, then you can try /sw/ > /k/. It's attested in Armenian (though the result was /kʰ/). I guess /zw/ if its possible could get you /g/ by analogy.
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P
Re: Looking for sound changes
I'd imagine /sw/ > /k/ would be something like /sw/ > /hw/ > /xw/ > /kw/ > /k/, of course, the /w/ could be lost anywhere along the way, not just the end.
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- Lebom
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Re: Looking for sound changes
It's not nonsensical if you don't just pull out one particular change without context. Armenian had *w > /k g/ and clusters with /s/ followed by a plosive regularly produce voiceless aspirates. So /sw/ > /sg~sk/ > /kʰ/.Chagen wrote:If you want completely nonsensical changes resulting in velar stops, then you can try /sw/ > /k/. It's attested in Armenian (though the result was /kʰ/). I guess /zw/ if its possible could get you /g/ by analogy.
- Nortaneous
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Re: Looking for sound changes
Kinyarwanda had w > kw~gw~k~g in a few clusters, so sw > skw > sk seems reasonable. Tsakonian and a few dialects of Spanish had sP > P_h.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Looking for sound changes
Some parts of Middle Indo-Aryan as well. These and Armenian also have *s > h so that was probably an intermediate here.Nortaneous wrote:Tsakonian and a few dialects of Spanish had sP > P_h.
Dolgopolsky is a PITA to read, but here are a few examples from Bomhard's slightly more accessible Nostratic dictionary. I can't seem to find any examples of this involving Chadic (or indeed, any Chadic emphatics at all, tsk tsk), but Cushitic delivers:Richard W wrote:I dimly remember it too. If all else fails, you could always look through Dolgopolsky's Nostratic dictionary.Chengjiang wrote:I don't know much about Afro-Asiatic outside of Semitic, so it's quite possible I'm wrong about this, but I thought there were some correspondences between implosives in some branches of Afro-Asiatic and ejectives in others. I thought Chadic implosives corresponded at least in part with ejective consonants in some other branches of the family, for instance. I'm having trouble finding a paper that examines this subject directly, though. Tell me, guys: Am I dimly remembering something genuine or is it a load of bollocks?
Dahalo /ɗaħ-/ ~ Semitic *tʼaħan "to grind"
Dahalo /ɗeːkʼʷáːni/ "shadow" ~ Ethio-Semitic *tʼākʼā "darkness"
Dahalo /ɗukʼ-/ "to be destroyed", Sidamo /ɗoːk-/ "to burst" ~ Kambaata /tʼoːkʼ-/ "to burst", Semitic *tʼakʼtʼakʼ- "to beat"
(though this looks seriously onomatopoetic)
For labials there seems to be one example from Omotic.
Dache, Oyda /ɓuɓule/ ~ Welamo /pʼupʼule/ "egg"
[ˌʔaɪsəˈpʰɻ̊ʷoʊpɪɫ ˈʔæɫkəɦɔɫ]
Re: Looking for sound changes
Yep, Sanskrit /st/ becomes Pali /ttʰ/, for example. The Buddha's hometown in Sanskrit is Kapilavastu, in Pali it became Kapilavatthu. And that is probably one of the LEAST strange assimilations that happened from Sanskrit to Pali. Nirvana became Nibbana, how the heck does /rʋ/ become /bː/?Tropylium wrote:Some parts of Middle Indo-Aryan as well.
(I'm a Buddhist, if you are wondering how I became so interested in Pali, LOL! )
- KathTheDragon
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Re: Looking for sound changes
Maybe /rʋ/ > /ʋ:/ > /β:/ > /b:/?TaylorS wrote:Nirvana became Nibbana, how the heck does /rʋ/ become /bː/?
Re: Looking for sound changes
[ru] → [rw] → [rv] → [vv] → [bb]?TaylorS wrote:Yep, Sanskrit /st/ becomes Pali /ttʰ/, for example. The Buddha's hometown in Sanskrit is Kapilavastu, in Pali it became Kapilavatthu. And that is probably one of the LEAST strange assimilations that happened from Sanskrit to Pali. Nirvana became Nibbana, how the heck does /rʋ/ become /bː/?Tropylium wrote:Some parts of Middle Indo-Aryan as well.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
Re: Looking for sound changes
Checks out!Pole, the wrote:[ru] → [rw] → [rv] → [vv] → [bb]?TaylorS wrote:Yep, Sanskrit /st/ becomes Pali /ttʰ/, for example. The Buddha's hometown in Sanskrit is Kapilavastu, in Pali it became Kapilavatthu. And that is probably one of the LEAST strange assimilations that happened from Sanskrit to Pali. Nirvana became Nibbana, how the heck does /rʋ/ become /bː/?Tropylium wrote:Some parts of Middle Indo-Aryan as well.