/ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
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- Lebom
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/ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Are there any minimal pairs?
Non fidendus est crocodilus quis posteriorem dentem acerbum conquetur.
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
I'm sure there are, but I have to go and can't summon simple examples right now.
Thought, for instance:
paella "paella"
pa' Elia "for Elia"
I have /ʝ/ anyway... but they're clearly distinct.
Thought, for instance:
paella "paella"
pa' Elia "for Elia"
I have /ʝ/ anyway... but they're clearly distinct.
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
What about liana vs llana?
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
I've only ever heard [li."a.na], never ["lja.na]
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- Avisaru
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Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Billar vs biliar?
Also, it's always [ljana] here in northern Mexico, never [li.ana]. Of course, we have no /ʎ/ phoneme.
Also, it's always [ljana] here in northern Mexico, never [li.ana]. Of course, we have no /ʎ/ phoneme.
The Conlanger Formerly Known As Aiďos
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
French magner / manier.
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Who does, these days?tezcatlip0ca wrote:Of course, we have no /ʎ/ phoneme.
vec
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
worksBillar vs biliar?
- Particles the Greek
- Lebom
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:48 am
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Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
So, yes. Are there sufficiently few to make a merger likely?
Non fidendus est crocodilus quis posteriorem dentem acerbum conquetur.
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Italian. Also contrastive with /lj/. olio /ˈoljo/ vs Oglio /ˈoʎo/ (phonemically, that is: phonetically internal /ʎ/ is pretty much always [ʎː]).vec wrote:Who does, these days?tezcatlip0ca wrote:Of course, we have no /ʎ/ phoneme.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Not happening any time soon in my Spanish, if at all... but it could. Sometimes I misspronounce "antonio" as "antoño" but it's noticeable and people laugh when such a thing happens. Maybe in some dialects it's happening?araceli wrote:So, yes. Are there sufficiently few to make a merger likely?
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
I repeat my question from above (where I was not being facetious).
In every dialect of Spanish I have heard, historical /ʎ/ has become [j], [ʝ], [ʒ] or [ʃ] and I have never ever heard it pronounced [ʎ] except on this one audio course I tried from the seventies.
In every dialect of Spanish I have heard, historical /ʎ/ has become [j], [ʝ], [ʒ] or [ʃ] and I have never ever heard it pronounced [ʎ] except on this one audio course I tried from the seventies.
vec
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
The Universtity of Chicago dictionary has a nice map showing areas where /ʎ/ is preserved: the Peruvian Andes, plus Bolivia and Paraguay. Note that the first two areas are also where Quechua and Aymara are spoken, and both distinguish l and /ʎ/ as well.
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
A friend of mine from Barcelona pronounces it in both Spanish and Catalan, although I'm only hearing her conscious pronunciation when telling me individual words. I don't speak either language to hear whether she's pronouncing it in fluent speech.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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MY MUSIC
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MY MUSIC
Re: /ɲ/ and /ʎ/ versus /nj/ and /lj/ in Romance
Some people in Spain do have /ʎ/, either as an idiosincrasy from interference cos they're bilingual or some dialect that keeps it (mostly northern ones).