The Innovative Usage Thread

[Viktor77]

Since I'm not a prescriptivist I don't consider myself dumb for doing the following:

I was teaching my students the passé composé in French and we had "J'ai bu" and I told them "I have drunken." They were pretty quick to catch it but I hardly caught it myself. It doesn't sound terribly wrong to me, I have drank, I have drunk, I have drunken. I suppose I know it's not standard but it just doesn't stick out to me. Can anyone else read it as semi-acceptable?

[CatDoom]

So, as far as I know "guy" is is treated as gender neutral in many varieties of North American English, at least in the context of the 2nd person plural construction "you guys." Im fairly certain that I, personally, have referred to people of all genders as "some guy," though referring to a visible woman as "that guy" feels less correct. I've also encountered "dude" as a term of address for both men and women, in part, I think, because there's not really an acceptable feminine equivalent with quite the same semantics (as far as I can tell, "dudette" was never used outside of '90's children's television).

My question, however, regards the use of the word "man," as in the greetings "hey man" or "how's it going, man?" I myself have addressed women as "man," and heard others do it as well. Is this something anyone else here has encountered?

[Shm Jay]

"Drunken" is the adjective, as in the song "What shall we do with the drunken sailor"?

[TaylorS]

Since I'm not a prescriptivist I don't consider myself dumb for doing the following:

I was teaching my students the passé composé in French and we had "J'ai bu" and I told them "I have drunken." They were pretty quick to catch it but I hardly caught it myself. It doesn't sound terribly wrong to me, I have drank, I have drunk, I have drunken. I suppose I know it's not standard but it just doesn't stick out to me. Can anyone else read it as semi-acceptable?

That is perfectly acceptable in my dialect.

[finlay]

I literally pointed out that as a mistake today, so no, I don't agree.

[gmalivuk]

"Firstable" now a word. *clutches pearls in sympathy*

Eggcorns, including that one, are nothing new.

Also, I suspect the Buzzfeed editors had some trouble misidentifying instances of a meme in at least a few of those examples.

[Yng]

"Drunken" is the adjective, as in the song "What shall we do with the drunken sailor"?

Although I imagine it is historically the past participle.

There's nothing particularly innovative or even interesting about some PPs having -en where other dialects don't - think 'gotten' (in most BrE 'got', though some rural dialects/increasingly young people affected by American have 'gotten').

My question, however, regards the use of the word "man," as in the greetings "hey man" or "how's it going, man?" I myself have addressed women as "man," and heard others do it as well. Is this something anyone else here has encountered?

yeah I do that all the time.

[Shm Jay]

"Drunken" is the adjective, as in the song "What shall we do with the drunken sailor"?

Although I imagine it is historically the past participle.

Your imaginations are correct

Forms: Pa. tense drank /dræŋk/ ; pa. pple. drunk /drʌŋk/ . Forms: Pres. stem. OE–ME drinc-, ME– drink- (ME drinnk- Orm., dringk-, ME drinch-, ME dring- ( he dringþ), ME–15 drynk-, ME–15 drinck-); ME–16 drinke, ME– drink. pa. tense sing.OE–ME dranc, ME– drank, ME dronc, dranck, Orm. drannk, ME drong, ME dronk(e, ME–16 dranke, 15–16 drunke, 15–18 drunk; pl.OE druncon, ME drunken, (ME drunnkenn Orm., drongken), ME dronke(n, ME drunke; also ME– north. and ME– generally, same as sing. pa. pple. α. OE druncen, ME– drunken, (ME Orm. drunnkenn, ME–15 dronken, ME dronckyn; Sc.ME drukken, 15 drokin, 16–18 druken, drucken). β. ME–16 drunke, (ME drownk, ME–15 dronke, droonke, droncke), 15– drunk; also 16–18 drank.

However, since Victor neither lives in nor comes from Merrie Olde Mediæval Engelond, it's incorrect.

[Porphyrogenitos]

At a university in a North Midland American English-speaking area - since I started paying attention, I haven't heard a single person pronounce "often" without a /t/, I often hear /foʊlk/ (or /fʌlk/?) for "folk", and last week I actually heard someone say /sʌbtl/ for "subtle". We are reaching an advanced stage of spelling pronunciation...

[Civil War Bugle]

I was strongly against pronouncing the t in often when I was 9, but I've mellowed out since then. On the other hand, I was probably 16 or so when I realized that the b was silent in subtle, because I guess people around me didn't say it that often.

[linguoboy]

I will humorously pronounce the b in subtle for much the same reason that I will say /ˈsweːv/ for suave, /dəˈboːnər/ for debonaire, or /səˈfɪstɪmɪˌkeːtəd/ for sophisticated.

[CatDoom]

At a university in a North Midland American English-speaking area - since I started paying attention, I haven't heard a single person pronounce "often" without a /t/, I often hear /foʊlk/ (or /fʌlk/?) for "folk", and last week I actually heard someone say /sʌbtl/ for "subtle". We are reaching an advanced stage of spelling pronunciation...

I dunno; I have (roughly) [ɔfn̩], [foʊk], and [sʌɾl̩]. I think maybe sometimes I pronounce the t in "often," but it's not a regular thing, and I don't think I've noticed anybody doing it regularly.

[jmcd]

However, since Victor neither lives in nor comes from Merrie Olde Mediæval Engelond, it's incorrect.

Ah but is TaylorS from Merrie Olde Mediæval Engelond?

[TaylorS]

However, since Victor neither lives in nor comes from Merrie Olde Mediæval Engelond, it's incorrect.

Ah but is TaylorS from Merrie Olde Mediæval Engelond?

[linguoboy]

This isn't an "innovation", just a striking usage: at Thanksgiving dinner, my ex was telling a story about his father and used the phrase "his two years' older brother".

[jal]

This isn't an "innovation", just a striking usage: at Thanksgiving dinner, my ex was telling a story about his father and used the phrase "his two years' older brother".

That's strikingly similar to Dutch "zijn twee jaar oudere broer". What would be the common English expression? "His older brother of two years" or the like?


JAL

[KathTheDragon]

No, that strikes me as very archaic. I'd expect to hear something along the lines of "his brother, who's two years older".

[Salmoneus]

I'm more curious about linguoboy's use of an apostrophe in "two year's older"!


But anyway: from the respectable newspaper The Independent (albeit their online version):
Harington made the admission in response to Game of Thrones actress Natalie Dormer calling him an "idiot", because her and other female cast members had opted instead to wear wigs.

Even having spotted it, part of me still wants to say this is OK. Most of me, however, is cringing.

[jal]

Harington made the admission in response to Game of Thrones actress Natalie Dormer calling him an "idiot", because her and other female cast members had opted instead to wear wigs.
Even having spotted it, part of me still wants to say this is OK. Most of me, however, is cringing.

Isn't this just sloppy editing instead of an actual innovative usage? It looks like a cross between "because of her and X opting instead to ..." and "because she and X opted instead to ...". Or is the former also incorrect?


JAL

[GreenBowTie]

that structure is pervasive in informal english: "me and my sister went to disneyland this weekend", etc.

[jal]

that structure is pervasive in informal english: "me and my sister went to disneyland this weekend", etc.

I know it is with "me" instead of "I", but you're saying it's also common for other pronouns?


JAL

[linguoboy]

that structure is pervasive in informal english: "me and my sister went to disneyland this weekend", etc.

I know it is with "me" instead of "I", but you're saying it's also common for other pronouns?

Yup. Try Googling "him and I are" or "her and I are".

Analogical singular heard from my second-oldest nephew recently: "a thieve".

[Salmoneus]

that structure is pervasive in informal english: "me and my sister went to disneyland this weekend", etc.

I know it is with "me" instead of "I", but you're saying it's also common for other pronouns?


JAL

I think it's much less common with other pronouns, which is why it left me cringing. But yeah, it does happen with other pronouns too. It also depends on where it is in the sentence and what the items are. So part of why it struck me there was I think the 'and other cast members' - if it had been, say, 'her and her mother' it would have felt more natural. But maybe the big thing is either the proper name being so close before it, or the 'because' clause, both of which to me make it more necessary to have the nominative.

But I don't know. I guess I can't really explain why that example seems so egregious to me, even though the general principle is something that shouldn't surprise me.

[ol bofosh]

Not spoken but written. A yod-dropper spelt due as do: "do to economics" (first time I've seen it).

[din]

Not spoken but written. A yod-dropper spelt due as do: "do to economics" (first time I've seen it).

I've seen a few people do the opposite. They apparently expected non-yod-droppers to pronounce the word 'ado' [ə'djuː] and spelled it 'adieu'