The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
- alynnidalar
- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Rhotic (Inland North), I rhyme it with "work". I've never actually heard it rhymed with "York", but then again I've only rarely heard it said IRL (I've mostly just seen it written).
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Same for me: Inland North, [twɝk] (NURSE lexical set). I’ve not heard [twɔɹk] or the like either in Chicago or Boston.alynnidalar wrote:Rhotic (Inland North), I rhyme it with "work". I've never actually heard it rhymed with "York", but then again I've only rarely heard it said IRL (I've mostly just seen it written).
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
If you're hearing that, are you sure it's not just their accent? A lot of AmE speakers have a rhotic so heavy that it starts sounding like a back vowel.L'alphabētarium wrote:How do you pronounce twerk?
I've heard many rhotic English speakers (mainly American & Canadian) say [twɔɹk] making it rhyme with York.
It sounds a bit "off" to me, since it always made sense to make it rhyme with work [wɜɹk/wɝk].
Maybe the difference isn't big enough for my ears to catch, but I distinctly hear them say an [ɔ] vowel there...
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- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
[twɹːk]
Who needs vowels if you have syllabic approximants?
Who needs vowels if you have syllabic approximants?
- KathTheDragon
- Smeric
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
[twɜ:k]
Not Slovene at any rate.sirdanilot wrote:Who needs vowels if you have syllabic approximants?
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
We do?finlay wrote:If you're hearing that, are you sure it's not just their accent? A lot of AmE speakers have a rhotic so heavy that it starts sounding like a back vowel.L'alphabētarium wrote:How do you pronounce twerk?
I've heard many rhotic English speakers (mainly American & Canadian) say [twɔɹk] making it rhyme with York.
It sounds a bit "off" to me, since it always made sense to make it rhyme with work [wɜɹk/wɝk].
Maybe the difference isn't big enough for my ears to catch, but I distinctly hear them say an [ɔ] vowel there...
It rhymes with 'work'.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Syllabic it is, but that’s no approximant! (Unless you mean syllabic /l/, but that’s been gone from Slovene for a few centuries now: vlk > volk, slnce > sonce and whatnot)KathAveara wrote:Not Slovene at any rate.sirdanilot wrote:Who needs vowels if you have syllabic approximants?
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- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
that sounds change is a pity but it is understandable
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
dissect
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
- KathTheDragon
- Smeric
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Admittedly, that was a joke derived from the Slovene conlanger I know often citing Slovene words without any vowel letters, and was therefore mostly aimed at him.Uzhdarchios wrote:Syllabic it is, but that’s no approximant! (Unless you mean syllabic /l/, but that’s been gone from Slovene for a few centuries now: vlk > volk, slnce > sonce and whatnot)KathAveara wrote:Not Slovene at any rate.sirdanilot wrote:Who needs vowels if you have syllabic approximants?
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
That one's pretty consistently [daɪ̯ˈsɛkt] for me, though now that I think about it, it seems odd that I don't reduce the vowel in the first syllable.Nortaneous wrote:dissect
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
The vowel reduction vs. absence of it isn't the only thing strange about how it is pronounced, though. The traditional reason pedants have objected to the pronunciation with a diphthong is that we would expect even an unreduced vowel here to be short, due to the orthographic doubling of the "s". The pronunciation with a diphthong seems like it might come from analogy with the differently-spelled "bisect".
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Just doing some very quick testing, as a finite or plain infinitive it always takes /ai/, but as a gerund/participle/gunna-future it feels like it could be either /ai/ or a reduced vowel without sounding off. Might actually be by its use, might be a result of prosody, might be because I'm overanalyzing and finding distinctions where there are none, I'm not sure.
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- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I as an L2 speaker pronounce these words as they are spelled, which means an [ɪ] here rather than a diphtong. Of course with the ridiculous orthography of English you could ask yourself if there is such a thing as 'spelling pronunciation', but certainly in the majority of cases, an <i> before an orthographically double consonant is pronounced as [ɪ]. An additional reason to use this pronounciation, is that this same rule also applies in my native Dutch. The pronuncation with [ai] sounds like hillbilly 'Murrican to me, really, or 16/f/California talk (like, OMG, we [daisɛktɪd] that rabbit in class and OMG it was like so gross !')
Incidentally, I only recently discoverred the pronunciation of 'caveat'. I always used to think it was [kæviːt]
Incidentally, I only recently discoverred the pronunciation of 'caveat'. I always used to think it was [kæviːt]
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
When I was a kid I pronounced albeit as [alˈbaɪt]. General American accent here; I've never heard any pronunciation other than /daisɛkt/ despite the <ss>. Definitely not hillbilly; that would be [daˈsɪkt].sirdanilot wrote:I as an L2 speaker pronounce these words as they are spelled, which means an [ɪ] here rather than a diphtong. Of course with the ridiculous orthography of English you could ask yourself if there is such a thing as 'spelling pronunciation', but certainly in the majority of cases, an <i> before an orthographically double consonant is pronounced as [ɪ]. An additional reason to use this pronounciation, is that this same rule also applies in my native Dutch. The pronuncation with [ai] sounds like hillbilly 'Murrican to me, really, or 16/f/California talk (like, OMG, we [daisɛktɪd] that rabbit in class and OMG it was like so gross !')
Incidentally, I only recently discoverred the pronunciation of 'caveat'. I always used to think it was [kæviːt]
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Albeit macht flei.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
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- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
'Melee' is also a notorious word for mispronunciation. [məliː] anyone?
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Spell "mêlée" properly and it's not a problem. I'm a total medieval history geek so I've never had any problems with that one.sirdanilot wrote:'Melee' is also a notorious word for mispronunciation. [məliː] anyone?
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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- Avisaru
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
That is the French spelling. I have never seen the spelling with the accents in English, but hey some people will probably do it.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I don't generally spell melee with the accents either, but I've definitely seen it in academic and older books. I've never had occasion to use the word in my writing, but if I did I'd probably use "mêlée."sirdanilot wrote:That is the French spelling. I have never seen the spelling with the accents in English, but hey some people will probably do it.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Here's a new set:
discussed
disgust
Xavier
sphere
Sven
wont
chaos
Logos
quark
force
Laura
Laurie
story
maul
mole
centaur
Minotaur
discussed
disgust
Xavier
sphere
Sven
wont
chaos
Logos
quark
force
Laura
Laurie
story
maul
mole
centaur
Minotaur
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
dissect [dɜe̽ˈsæ̆kt]
discussed [dĕˈskʌst]
disgust [dĕˈskʌst]
Xavier [æ̆gˈze̞eviɻ̩], [xäviˈe̽ɻ]
sphere [sviɻ]
Sven [svæ̆n]
wont [wɔnt]
chaos [ˈkʰe̞eɒs]
Logos [ˈlo̞go̞s]
quark [kʰwäɻk]
force [foɻs]
Laura [ˈloɻə]
Laurie [ˈloɻi]
story [ˈstoɻi]
maul [mɔl]
mole [moʊl]
centaur [sæ̆nˈtoɻ]
Minotaur [ˈmäenɤ̈toɻ]
edit: fixed aspiration, syllabification
discussed [dĕˈskʌst]
disgust [dĕˈskʌst]
Xavier [æ̆gˈze̞eviɻ̩], [xäviˈe̽ɻ]
sphere [sviɻ]
Sven [svæ̆n]
wont [wɔnt]
chaos [ˈkʰe̞eɒs]
Logos [ˈlo̞go̞s]
quark [kʰwäɻk]
force [foɻs]
Laura [ˈloɻə]
Laurie [ˈloɻi]
story [ˈstoɻi]
maul [mɔl]
mole [moʊl]
centaur [sæ̆nˈtoɻ]
Minotaur [ˈmäenɤ̈toɻ]
edit: fixed aspiration, syllabification
Last edited by ęzo on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
discussed [dɪˈskust]
disgust [dɪˈskust] ([dɪsˈgust] in careful speech)
Xavier [ˈksɛɪviɚ] OR [ˈzɛɪviɚ]
sphere [ˈsfiɻ]
Sven [ˈsv̬ɛn]
wont [ˈwɔnt]
chaos [ˈkʰɛɪ.ɔs]
Logos [ˈloʊgoʊs]
quark [ˈkwɔɻk] (as opposed to Quark [ˈkwɑɻk])
force [ˈfoʊɻs]
Laura [ˈlɔɻə]
Laurie [ˈloʊɻi]
story [ˈstoʊɻi]
maul [ˈmɑl]
mole [ˈmoʊl]
centaur [ˈcɛntɔɻ] OR [ˈcɛntɑɻ]
Minotaur [ˈmɪnoʊˌtʰɑɻ]
disgust [dɪˈskust] ([dɪsˈgust] in careful speech)
Xavier [ˈksɛɪviɚ] OR [ˈzɛɪviɚ]
sphere [ˈsfiɻ]
Sven [ˈsv̬ɛn]
wont [ˈwɔnt]
chaos [ˈkʰɛɪ.ɔs]
Logos [ˈloʊgoʊs]
quark [ˈkwɔɻk] (as opposed to Quark [ˈkwɑɻk])
force [ˈfoʊɻs]
Laura [ˈlɔɻə]
Laurie [ˈloʊɻi]
story [ˈstoʊɻi]
maul [ˈmɑl]
mole [ˈmoʊl]
centaur [ˈcɛntɔɻ] OR [ˈcɛntɑɻ]
Minotaur [ˈmɪnoʊˌtʰɑɻ]
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Wow, these are more interesting than I expected!
Followup questions, if you don't mind answering:
@Zaarin: you have very interesting vowels. Would you say you have the lot-thought merger, but also a lot-cloth split? What other words have /ɔ/ for you? Would you mind transcribing how you say the following additional words (especially the vowels):
caught
cot
lot
cloth
gone
horse
hoarse
foreign
Followup questions, if you don't mind answering:
Uzhdarchios wrote: discussed [dĕsˈkʌst] disgust [dĕsˈkʌst] Is it syllabified that way, or like this: [dĕˈskʌst]? Is the k aspirated or not? Also, is it a true phonetic [ʌ] (urounded [ɔ]) or more like [ɐ]?
sphere [sviɻ] Sven [svæ̆n] Is the [v] here actually voiced?
Logos [ˈlo̞go̞s] Is this lower than the vowel in "force" and the like, or about the same height? Also, are either diphthongized at all?
centaur [sæ̆nˈtoɻ] Is this stressed on the second syllable, or was that an accident?
Zaarin wrote:discussed [dɪˈskust] disgust [dɪˈskust] ([dɪsˈgust] in careful speech) Is it a true phonetic or more like [ɐ]?
wont [ˈwɔnt]
chaos [ˈkʰɛɪ.ɔs]
quark [ˈkwɔɻk] (as opposed to Quark [ˈkwɑɻk]) Isn't the k aspirated?
force [ˈfoʊɻs]
Laura [ˈlɔɻə]
Laurie [ˈloʊɻi] Do you have any idea why the vowel is different from Laura?
story [ˈstoʊɻi]
maul [ˈmɑl]
@Zaarin: you have very interesting vowels. Would you say you have the lot-thought merger, but also a lot-cloth split? What other words have /ɔ/ for you? Would you mind transcribing how you say the following additional words (especially the vowels):
caught
cot
lot
cloth
gone
horse
hoarse
foreign
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Ah, yes, that syllabification makes more sense. There is no aspiration in either one, but looking back, I did forget to add aspiration diacritics in »chaos« and »quark«. The vowel is a true phonetic [ʌ] (all the vowels were determined by looking at the acoustic formants); the Northern Cities vowel shift, which I have many features of, has tended toward backing /ʌ/.Sumelic wrote:Followup questions, if you don't mind answering:
discussed [dĕsˈkʌst] disgust [dĕsˈkʌst] Is it syllabified that way, or like this: [dĕˈskʌst]? Is the k aspirated or not? Also, is it a true phonetic [ʌ] (urounded [ɔ]) or more like [ɐ]?
Yes, even in sphere. This might be influenced by the other language I grew up with, which has [sv] as a pretty common initial cluster, e.g. sve, svugde, svašta, svirati, etc.sphere [sviɻ] Sven [svæ̆n] Is the [v] here actually voiced?
Slightly lower (the »force« vowel, by contrast, is definitely high-mid), and not diphthongized at all — not particularly adapted to English phonology. This probably stems from some combination of the desire to avoid confusion with »logos«, influence from reading the word in Greek script, and the rarity of hearing the word spoken aloud.Logos [ˈlo̞go̞s] Is this lower than the vowel in "force" and the like, or about the same height? Also, are either diphthongized at all?
No accident; I am not sure where this stress pattern came from, but I’ve never used any other.centaur [sæ̆nˈtoɻ] Is this stressed on the second syllable, or was that an accident?