Chinese pronunciation of Japanese names

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zompist
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Re: Chinese pronunciation of Japanese names

Post by zompist »

BGMan wrote:And speaking of Old Latin -- I suspect that Spanish is actually descended from Old Latin rather than Classical Latin. If you go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Latin
and scroll down to the verb declension, you'll understand what I'm talking about: Spanish has fuimos, fuisteis, just like Old Latin, whereas Classical Latin changed it to fuimus, fuistis. This would make sense since the Romans introduced Latin to Spain when it was still in the Old Latin stage.
Er, what? Basically every preterite verb in Spanish has 1p -os, 2p -eis.

Seirios
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Re: Chinese pronunciation of Japanese names

Post by Seirios »

BGMan wrote:And speaking of Old Latin -- I suspect that Spanish is actually descended from Old Latin rather than Classical Latin. If you go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Latin
and scroll down to the verb declension, you'll understand what I'm talking about: Spanish has fuimos, fuisteis, just like Old Latin, whereas Classical Latin changed it to fuimus, fuistis. This would make sense since the Romans introduced Latin to Spain when it was still in the Old Latin stage.
Nothing, I'm afraid, descends even from Classical Latin -- Spanish descended from Vulgar Latin. It underwent (short) u >o and (short) i>e so the 1st and 3rd person plurals are easily accounted. I don't yet have clue for the 2nd person -eis, judging from the present and imperfect I'd suspect generalization of a -Vis.
Always an adventurer, I guess.
-
Tone: Chao's notation.
Apical vowels: [ɿ]≈[z̞̩], [ʅ]≈[ɻ̞̩], [ʮ]≈[z̞̩ʷ], [ʯ]≈[ɻ̞̩ʷ].
Vowels: [ᴇ]=Mid front unrounded, [ᴀ]=Open central unrounded, [ⱺ]=Mid back rounded, [ⱻ]=Mid back unrounded.

BGMan
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Re: Chinese pronunciation of Japanese names

Post by BGMan »

Now, Cantonese vs. Sino-Korean, using the same song from earlier in this thread (well, two-thirds of it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScLiTW6WFc0

Sino-Korean ((X) represents unknown hanja):
양개저시왕자 시타유저본사
성중가도가부양급타 희(X)청방변부수하대가 호내청주전다일망타적풍채 간바타주근고라타타고 가회애상저개타
시왕자다메종위시심융영웅 궤하장이표존경원주부하 개개야망도입신 금천장갱가흥분 저리정취만착백만중영상빈
시왕자다메영위만세영웅 력량족가비득상십개남아 (X)심지가임연대 백위집검적호한 다시위대이인허수감적대
독유칠발십척(X)금낙타 우유자공작오십척 령유고괴거수시신종류 종종야취괴이가칭득 저시세계동맛회점
시왕자다메영준심중적영웅 망착다부수다설변요궤하 심각이비다견인 파교자장다흡인 안정간착간착타왕자시야

Sino-Korean is much further than Sino-Vietnamese from Cantonese in the vowels. Final consonants are also further, primarily due to Sino-Korean turning -t into -l. On the other hand, the initial consonants in some (but not all) cases are actually more accurate. Most importantly, Sino-Korean lacks the Sino-Vietnamese tendency to render initials such as ts- and b- as t-.

Cantonese written in hangul:
영회제시웡지 시타얄제분시
싱중개돌호팔영갑타 헤네칭퐁빈밧쇠호되가 홀뢰칭잘친도얏몽타딕풍최 혼바타잘간할로다다구 호위외성제고타
시웡지도모즌괘시삼중잉훙 괘하증이뷰즌깅윤졸볼하 고고야몽돌얍산 감팅증강가힝판 제뢰징최문적박만중잉성반
시웡지도모잉왜만새잉훙 릭렁죽호베닥성삽고남이 쾨삼지호이민되 박왜잡김딕홀혼 타시왜대이잉회쇠감딕되
둑얄찻밧삽젝잔감록토 얄얄지훙적응삽젝 링얄구괘괴살시산중뢰 중중야츼괘이호칭닥 제시새개둥맛위딤
시웡지도모잉전삼중딕잉훙 몽적타밧쇠도슷빈유괘하 삼컥이베타힌얀 배규지정다캅얀 안딩혼적혼적다웡지시야

I had to conflate a couple of things, namely, -e and -ei are both 에, and -eui (or -ơi) and -oi both 외. To solve the problem of Korean lacking a final to represent the semivowel -w as in -au and -ou, I went with using -l. Final -t is written as 읏, simply because it's far more common in Korean than 읃.

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