Help your fluency in a nifty way

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
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jal
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

din wrote:FWIW, 'Hier klink je als een Duitse huisvrouw uit de jaren vijftig' sounds perfectly natural to me. Note 'als', rather than 'zoals', though, as the collocation is 'klinken als', not 'klinken zoals'.
Yeah, indeed, I missed the "zoals". And I agree that it doesn't sound that odd, but it's still... somewhat off. Don't know why exactly...


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

hwhatting wrote: ... Tutaj brzmisz jak niemiecka gospodyni domowa z lat 50-ych. ;-)
... Here you sound like a German housewife from the 50s. ;-)
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Naja, manchmal fühl ich mich, als ob ich in den 50igern am Leben gewesen wäre.
Well, sometimes I like I was alive during the 50s.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

Ik miss Nederlands hier oefenen. Ik heb te vele Deens geoefend terwijl ik mijn Nederlands na liet. Indien ik onderwijs verder werd voort te zetten, zal ik Nederlands nodig hebben. Mijn professor zegt dat ik mensen in Vlaanderen alleen maar in het Engels voor mijn onderzoek kan interviewen. Maar ik zou graag het in het Nederlands doen. :)

I miss practicing Dutch here. I have practiced too much Danish while I neglected my Dutch. If I continue my education I'll need Dutch. My professor says that I can simply interview people in Flanders in English for my research. But I would like to do it in Dutch. :)
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Es ist schwer, Niederländisch-Sprecher Niederländisch mit dir reden zu lassen, wenn sie einmal wissen, dass du ein gebürtiger Englisch-Sprecher bist.
It's difficult to get Dutch-speakers to speak Dutch to you once they know you're a native English-speaker.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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linguoboy wrote:It's difficult to get Dutch-speakers to speak Dutch to you once they know you're a native English-speaker.
Ja, ich verstehe das nicht. Ich habe selbst kein Problem mit Niederländisch sprechen mit jemandem der kein Mutersprachler ist.
Yeah, I don't understand that. I have no problem myself to talk Dutch with someone who's not a native speaker.
Viktor77 wrote:Ik miss het om hier Nederlands te oefenen. Ik heb te veel* Deens geoefend terwijl ik mijn Nederlands naliet**. Indien*** ik mijn studie/opleiding verder^ wil voortzetten^^, zal ik Nederlands nodig hebben. Mijn professor zegt dat ik de^^^ mensen in Vlaanderen alleen maar+ in het Engels kan interviewen voor mijn onderzoek. Maar ik zou het graag in het Nederlands doen.
*"vele", though old fashioned, can be used with count nouns, but never as an adverb.
**single word, but not idiomatic. "verwaarloosde" is the term your looking for.
***"als" is much better ("indien" is pretty stilted)
^I'm not entirely sure whether "verder voortzetten" is at all acceptable, probably it's a tautology.
^^or just "voortzet"
^^^sounds a bit better with, as it's specific people you are interviewing. Also, "(de) Vlamingen" instead of "mensen in Vlaanderen" could be an alternative if it's not Walloons living in Flanders you're going to interview.
+That's no what you say in English. "alleen maar" means "only", so in Dutch you write that your professor says you can only interview them in English (and are not allowed to do it in Dutch). What you're looking for as a translation of "simply" is "gewoon": "gewoon in het Engels"


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Ja, ich verstehe das nicht. Ich habe selbst kein Problem damit, Niederländisch zu sprechen mit jemandem, der kein Muttersprachler ist.
Yeah, I don't understand that. I have no problem myself to talk Dutch with someone who's not a native speaker.
Ik geloof dat ik hiervan al gewag gemaakt heb - ik heb dikwijls van andere Duitsen gehoord, dat het Nederlanders niet bevalt, wanneer zij (de Duitsen) Nederlands met hen gesproken hebben. Ik zelfs heb nooit dit ervaring gemaakt.
I think I mentioned this here already - I have frequently heard from other Germans that Dutch People didn't like it when they (the Germans) talked Dutch with them. I myself never experienced that.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

hwhatting wrote:
Jal wrote:Yeah, I don't understand that. I have no problem myself speaking Dutch with someone who's not a native speaker.
Ik geloof dat ik hiervan al gewag gemaakt heb - ik heb dikwijls van andere Duitsen gehoord, dat het Nederlanders niet bevalt, wanneer zij (de Duitsen) Nederlands met hen gesproken hebben. Ik zelfs heb nooit dit ervaring gemaakt.
I think I mentioned this here already - I have frequently heard from other Germans that Dutch People didn't like it when they (the Germans) talked Dutch with them. I myself never experienced that.
Ik heb echt ontgemoeten Vlamingen (en Nederlanders) die Nederlands met mij spreken wilden, toen ik gezegd heb dat ik hun taal aan het leren was. Het was ook het geval in Denemarken, wanneer ik iemand gezegd heb dat ik mijn Deens graag oefenen zou, maar het was alleen de mensen met wie ik gebleven was (de mensen met wie ik het meest had gesproken). Het was ook het geval in Duitsland.

Dus, ik vind dat, ja, die mensen in de straten Engels willen spreken omdat het gemakkelijker is om te communiceren (vooral voor kleine talen als Nederlands of Deens), maar of du echt je Nederlands of Deens of Duits, etc. wil oefenen, kan du vinden mensen die bereid zijn EN die gelukkig zijn dat je hun kleine taal leert, dat je hun cultuur interessant en belangrijk vindt.


I did actually meet Flemings (and Dutchmen) who wanted to speak Dutch with me when I said that I was learning their language. It was also the case in Denmark, when I said to something that I would like to practice my Danish, but it was only people with whom I was staying (the people with whom I had spoken the most). This was also the case in Germany.

So I think that, yes, people in the street want to speak English because it's more convenient to communicate in it (especially for smaller languages like Dutch or Danish), but if you really want to practice your Dutch or Danish or German, etc. you can find people who are game AND who are happy that you're learning their small language, that you find their culture interesting and important.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Jonlang »

Dw i'n ddi-waith yn swyddogol. Mae gen i fwy amser i ddysgu Cymraeg ac i adeiladu fy iaith wedi'i adeiladu! Dw i'n dechrau fy swydd newydd ym mis Ionawr.

I am officially unemployed. I have more time to learn Welsh and build my conlang! I start my new job in January.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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dyolf wrote:Dw i'n ddi-waith yn swyddogol. Mae gen i fwy amser i ddysgu Cymraeg ac i adeiladu fy iaith wedi'i adeiladu! Dw i'n dechrau fy swydd newydd ym mis Ionawr.

I am officially unemployed. I have more time to learn Welsh and build my conlang! I start my new job in January.
你是做什麽專業的啊?新公司也是同樣的行業嗎?
nǐ shì zuò shénme zhuānyè de a? xīn gōngsī yěshì tóngyàng de hángyè ma?
你是做啥物款ㄟ專業啊?新公司是不是嘛是仝款ㄟ行業?
lí sī tsò siánn-mih khuán e tsuan-gia̍p a? sin kong-si sī m̄ sī mā sī kāng‑khuán e hâng-gia̍p?

What kind of work do you do? Is the new job in the same field?
axhiuk.

看蝦米

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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hwhatting wrote:Ik geloof dat ik hiervan al gewag* gemaakt heb - ik heb dikwijls** van andere Duitsers gehoord, dat het Nederlanders niet bevalt***, wanneer^ zij (de Duitsers) Nederlands met hen gesproken hebben. Ik zelfs^^ heb deze ervaring nooit gehad^^^.
*Quite stilted and literary - you wouldn't ever say that in normal conversation. Try "Ik geloof dat ik dit al [eens] eerder gezegd heb"
**Old fashioned, use "vaak" or "regelmatig".
***Not quite idiomatic. I'd say "dat Nederlanders het niet prettig/fijn/plezierig vinden" of "dat Nederlanders het niet op prijs stellen"
^"wanneer" refers to actual events, "als" also, or to hypothetical ones. When using "wanneer" you a simple past tense is called for (in both protasis and apodosis), when using "als" the present tense. So this whole sentence becomes either:
Option 1: "Ik heb regelmatig van andere Duitsers gehoord dat het Nederlanders niet bevalt als ze (de Duitsers) Nederlands praten", or
Option 2: "Ik heb regelmatig van andere Duitsers gehoord dat het Nederlanders niet beviel als/wanneer ze (de Duitsers) Nederlands spraken".
You could use a past perfect, like this:
Option 3: "Ik heb regelmatig van andere Duitsers gehoord dat het Nederlanders niet beviel in het geval/de gevallen dat ze (de Duitsers) Nederlands hadden gesproken".
but you need "in het geval dat" to refer to actual occurences, and the past perfect signals that the feedback came afterwards. I don't think you could get away with a present perfect though.
^^"zelfs" means "even" ("Ik heb zelfs een fles whiskey gekregen" - "I even got a bottle of whiskey")
^^^Or "Ik heb zelf ..." or "Zelf heb ik ..."; also you could say "Ik heb dit zelf nog nooit meegemaakt" as an alternative.

Vielleicht war das vor einigen Jahrzehnten, und war die Krieg noch im dem Gedächtnis? Ich erinnere mich, das in der 80er und 90er Jahren, es noch viel anti-Deutsche Sentimenten gab.
Perhaps it was a few decades ago, and the war was still on their minds? I recall that in the 80s and 90s, there were still a lot of anti-German sentiments.
Ik heb echt* Vlamingen (en Nederlanders) ontmoet die Nederlands met mij spreken wilden**, toen ik zei dat ik hun taal aan het leren was. Dat*** was ook het geval in Denemarken, toen ik iemand vertelde dat ik mijn Deens graag oefenen zou^, maar dat was alleen met de mensen bij wie ik verbleef/logeerde (de mensen met wie ik het meest gesproken heb^^). Dat was ook het geval in Duitsland.
*Not really a translation of "actually". You could try "Ik heb wel degelijk (...)" though that sounds a bit more opposing what was previously said than "actually".
**At least in ND I'd reverse that "wilden spreken".
***I feel "het" here is not idiomatic, probably because of the "ook".
^again reverse "zou oefenen", in this case I find it even more necessary than with "spreken wilden". Also, "zou willen oefenen" sounds more idiomatich for me.
^^present perfect, the past perfect seems odd, even though I see you have it in the English version as well. Again the reversal sounds beter for me.
I did actually meet Flemings (and Dutchmen) who wanted to speak Dutch with me when I said that I was learning their language. It was also the case in Denmark, when I said to someone that I would like to practice my Danish, but it was only people with whom I was staying (the people with whom I had spoken the most).
;)
Dus, ik denk inderdaad, dat , ja,* de mensen op straat Engels willen spreken omdat dat gemakkelijker is om in te communiceren (vooral voor kleine talen als Nederlands of Deens**), maar als je echt je Nederlands of Deens of Duits, etc. wil oefenen, kan*** je mensen vinden die bereid zijn om met je te oefenen^ EN die gelukkig zijn dat je hun kleine taal leert, dat je hun cultuur interessant en belangrijk vindt^^.
*This strikes me as an anglicism.
**Both in your English and Dutch this is grammatically odd, "smaller languages" do not "communicate in English". But as a translation of the English version it's fine.
***Fine in speech, in writing use "kun je" (and "je kunt") instead of "kan je" (and "je kan").
^after "bereid zijn" you need the thing the people are prepared to do. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "who are game", I've encountered that expression in the wild, but in this case it seems overly colloquial?
^^Again a bit odd, both in Dutch and English (this time stylistically), but fine as a translation.


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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treskro wrote:
dyolf wrote:Dw i'n ddi-waith yn swyddogol. Mae gen i fwy amser i ddysgu Cymraeg ac i adeiladu fy iaith wedi'i adeiladu! Dw i'n dechrau fy swydd newydd ym mis Ionawr.

I am officially unemployed. I have more time to learn Welsh and build my conlang! I start my new job in January.
你是做什麽專業的啊?新公司也是同樣的行業嗎?
nǐ shì zuò shénme zhuānyè de a? xīn gōngsī yěshì tóngyàng de hángyè ma?
你是做啥物款ㄟ專業啊?新公司是不是嘛是仝款ㄟ行業?
lí sī tsò siánn-mih khuán e tsuan-gia̍p a? sin kong-si sī m̄ sī mā sī kāng‑khuán e hâng-gia̍p?

What kind of work do you do? Is the new job in the same field?
Wnes i weithio yn archfarchnad am ddeg blwydden, ar y sifft nos. Wnes i gael fy niswyddo wythnos diwethaf. Mae fy swydd newydd yn fewn carchar.

I worked in a supermarket for ten years, on the night shift. I was made redundant last week. My new job is in a prison.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Vielleicht war das vor einigen Jahrzehnten, und war der Krieg war noch im dem Gedächtnis*1)? Ich erinnere mich, dass in der 80er und 90er Jahren, es noch viel antideutsche Gefühle gab.
Perhaps it was a few decades ago, and the war was still on their minds? I recall that in the 80s and 90s, there were still a lot of anti-German sentiments.
*1) The literal Translation is not very idiomatic. Better: und die Menschen erinnerten sich noch an den Krieg / hatten den Krieg noch in Erinnerung

Tak, myślę, że już było 20 lat temu, kiedy słychałem te opowieści.
Ja, ik denk het is al 20 jaren geleden dat ik deze verhalen gehoord heb.
Oui, je pense qu'il y a déjà 20 ans que j'ai écouté ces histoires.

Yes, I think it's already 20 years ago that I heard these stories.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Ja, ik denk het al 20 jaar geleden is dat ik deze verhalen gehoord heb.

JAL

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Ambermoore »

Я много мая Русский забыла. Извените мне когда я делаю ошибку.
I have forgotten much of my Russian. Forgive me when I make mistakes.
Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist; children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed. ~Attributed by Neil Gaiman to GK Chesterton

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Ich kann's kaum glauben, dass HaWe keinen einzigen Fehler in meinem vorigen Beitrag gefunden hat. Er hat's halt übersehen müssen.
I can hardly believe H-W didn't find fault with a single thing in my last post. He must not have seen it.
dyolf wrote:Mae fy swydd newydd yn fewn carchar.
Go n-éirí leat. D'fhoilsigh The Economist alt fesna fadhbannaibh leis an gcóras príosúin atá ann faoi láthair i Sasana is san Bhreatain Bheag agus is ní deas an t-ábhar léitheoireachta é.
Good luck to you. The Economist printed an article on the problems facing the current prison system in England and Wales and it makes for grim reading.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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linguoboy wrote:
dyolf wrote:Mae fy swydd newydd yn fewn carchar.
Go n-éirí leat. D'fhoilsigh The Economist alt fesna fadhbannaibh leis an gcóras príosúin atá ann faoi láthair i Sasana is san Bhreatain Bheag agus is ní deas an t-ábhar léitheoireachta é.
Good luck to you. The Economist printed an article on the problems facing the current prison system in England and Wales and it makes for grim reading.
It's a brand new prison and becomes operational in February, so hopefully some of the problems that our prisons face will be addressed. It is, by our standards, a massive prison, with a capacity of 2100. Most of our prisons hold about 600. I'm looking forward to the challenge. (I'm too tired to attempt to put that into Welsh.)
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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linguoboy wrote:Ich kann's kaum glauben, dass HaWe keinen einzigen Fehler in meinem vorigen Beitrag gefunden hat. Er muss ihn halt übersehen haben.
I can hardly believe H-W didn't find fault with a single thing in my last post. He must not have seen it.
Er was geen fout in dat post. ;-)
There was no mistake in that post. ;-)

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

hwhatting wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Ich kann's kaum glauben, dass HaWe keinen einzigen Fehler in meinem vorigen Beitrag gefunden hat. Er muss ihn halt übersehen haben.
I can hardly believe H-W didn't find fault with a single thing in my last post. He must not have seen it.
Das war schon besser!
That's more like it!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Er zat geen fout in die post
Ich glaube, ich habe niemals ein fehlerlose Post geschrieben. Aber mein Deutsch ist auch nicht so gut. Ich sollte es mehr üben.
I think I've never written a post without an error. But my German is not very gut. I should practice it more.


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Ich glaube, ich habe niemals einen fehlerlosen Post*1) geschrieben. Aber mein Deutsch ist auch nicht so gut. Ich sollte es mehr üben.
*1) die Post - post office, mail; der Post - post on a message board etc.

I think I've never written a post without an error. But my German is not very gut. I should practice it more.
Dit was bijna een post zonder fouten.
This almost was a post without mistakes.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:This almost was a post without mistakes.
Yeah, those pesky declensions get me every time...

(Entschuldigung, keine Übersetzung, kein Zeit.)
(Apologies, no translations, no time.)


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:(Entschuldigung, keine Übersetzung, keine Zeit.)
(Apologies, no translations, no time.)
Ik heb ook geen tijd.
I have no time, either.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

dyolf wrote:(I'm too tired to attempt to put that into Welsh.)
Das heisst doch nicht, dass du aus der Verantwortung entlassen wirst!
Ní hé a dhála sin agatsa é go scaoilfear leat chomh réidh sin!
That doesn't mean you're off the hook!

Jetzt, dass du doch ausgeruht bist, gibt es keine Ausrede mehr, oder?
Ós rud é gur ligis do scíth ná fuil aon leithscéal agat feasta, ní hea?
Now that you're rested, you don't have an excuse any more, do you?

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

hwhatting wrote:[Tak, myślę, że już było 20 lat temu, kiedy słyszałem te opowieści.
Yes, I think it's already 20 years ago that I heard these stories.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

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