Help your fluency in a nifty way

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

hwhatting wrote:To słowo wygląda jak zapożyczenie z arabskiego.
This word looks like a loan from Arabic.
And now you switched from Slavic to German.
linguoboy wrote:
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:I don't wanna junk this thread so I'll try to clarify this in just one post: he said during his talk that some years before he had been to Germany for a year-long exchange programme and at that time he hadhadlearnt learnt German language and had started dreaming in it so he could then describe this experience to more people.
I'd just like to know how you say this what I wanted to share with others - maybe there will be at least one person who'll pay attention to these monolingual posts and will find this piece of information useful.
Ziz and I told you how to say it: Use the simple past when narrating a past occurrence like this.
OK, maybe some day you will have a chance to just read my English and not see my mistakes. My opinion is that the more mistakes I make the more I can learn so it's also quite funny to see half of the text marked red :) .
hwhatting wrote:As Jal said, I am a native speaker. Maybe you're too, who knows, but one thing I've learnt in discussing usage here on the ZBB is that even native speakers can have very different opinions about what usage is admissible and what's not.
Жаль, что the Pole неактивный в каникулы потому что я мог бы открыть различия между разными вариантами польского языка если бы только он тоже вас исрпавлял. Я знаю только горожан и они только из немногих городов Польши поэтому все говорят так, как я и я не знаю, есть ли варианты польского.
C'est dommage que the Pole est inactif en vacances parce que je pourrais découvrir des différences entre variantes diverses du polonais si seulement il vous corrigerait aussi. Je connais seulement des citadins et ils sont de peu de villes polonaises donc tous parlent comme moi et je ne sais pas s'il y a des variantes du polonais.

It's a pity that the Pole is inactive on holiday because I could discover differences between various variants of Polish if only he also corrected you. I know only townsmen and they're from very few Polish towns so everybody speaks like me and I don't know if there are variants of Polish.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

hwhatting wrote:Oui, parfois j'ai des songes* en langues étrangères.
*Better rêves.
hwhatting wrote:Ce mot prend l'apparence* d'un emprunt à l'arabe.
Better ressemble à.
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:C'est dommage que the Pole soit inactif en vacances parce que je pourrais seulement découvrir les différences entre variantes diverses du polonais s'il seulement il vous* corrigerait aussi. Je ne connais que seulementdes citadins** et ils viennent de quelques villes polonaises donc tout le monde parlent comme moi et je ne sais pas s'il y a d'autres variantes du polonais.

It's a pity that the Pole is inactive on holiday because I would only be able to discover the differences between various variants of Polish if only he also corrected you. I only know only townsmen*** and they're from very few Polish towns**** so everybody speaks like me and I don't know if there are other variants of Polish.
*I'd tutoie online, no need to vouvoie.
**In the English translation you have townsmen but citadins come from cities.
***Sounds really quaint, I'd just say people from villages or something.
****Towns or cities, there's a difference, towns are much smaller than cities.

Mijn Poolse vriend heeft me verklaard dat er zijn heel weinig dialekten van Pools omdat de taal wel gestandaardiseerd is door de tijd heen.

My Polish friend explained to me that there are very few dialects of Polish because the language has been well standardized throughout time.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Viktor77 wrote:It's a pity that the Pole is inactive on holiday because I would only be able to discover the differences between various variants of Polish if only he also corrected you. I only know only townsmen*** and they're from very few Polish towns**** so everybody speaks like me and I don't know if there are other variants of Polish.
Uebrigens bin ich mit fast allen diesen Korrektionen nicht einverstanden. Einiges, was du hier geschrieben hast, war ungeschickt formuliert oder unidiomatisch aber nichts war völlig ungrammatisch.
FWIW, Diego, I disagree with almost all of these corrections. Some of what you wrote here was awkward or unidiomatic. Nothing was actually ungrammatical.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

linguoboy wrote:FWIW, Diego, I disagree with almost all of these corrections. Some of what you wrote here was awkward or unidiomatic. Nothing was actually ungrammatical.
It's very difficult to take a text with lots of errors and try to correct it without rewriting the whole text. I used orange for recommended changes. I admit it still sounded unidiomatic but like I said, was I going to rewrite the entire text? I worked with what there was.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

Viktor77 wrote:Mijn Poolse vriend heeft me verklaard dat er zijn heel weinig dialekten van Pools omdat de taal wel gestandaardiseerd is door de tijd heen.

My Polish friend explained to me that there are very few dialects of Polish because the language has been well standardized throughout time.
I met a man once who told me he was proud Polish has so little dialectal variation. It was like a shot in my (amateur) linguistic heart (I might have mentioned it before but it fits ideally to this conversation). I can't just accept there are people who like the fact that communists took from us one of the most typical feature of language, but regrettably both these Poles and communists cannot be charged with it.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Viktor77 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:FWIW, Diego, I disagree with almost all of these corrections. Some of what you wrote here was awkward or unidiomatic. Nothing was actually ungrammatical.
It's very difficult to take a text with lots of errors and try to correct it without rewriting the whole text. I used orange for recommended changes. I admit it still sounded unidiomatic but like I said, was I going to rewrite the entire text? I worked with what there was.
Ich mühe mich damit ab, um die Verbinding zu sehen, zwischen was ich geschrieben hab was du als Antwort darauf geschrieben hast.
I'm struggling to see the connexion between what I wrote and your response.
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:I met a man once who told me he was proud Polish has so little dialectal variation. It was like a shot in my (amateur) linguistic heart (I might have mentioned itthis before but it fits ideally into this conversation). I just can't just accept there are people who like the fact that the Communists took from us one of the most typical features of a language, but regrettably both these Poles and the Communists cannot be charged with it.
I don't understand what that last phrase is supposed to mean.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

I wanted to say I think this process of eliminating dialects and language diversity was a sort of crime in my opinion
This day and this conversation went so wrong I think I'll leave this forum for a couple days. I just can't believe I could make so many mistakes in such short texts. I also hesitated between this and attempting to improve the level of my communication but the previous 3 days got me so tired I can't think normally.
Bye
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

linguoboy wrote:
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:I met a man once who told me he was proud Polish has so little dialectal variation. It was like a shot in my (amateur) linguistic heart (I might have mentioned itthis before but it fits ideally into this conversation). I just can't just accept there are people who like the fact that the Communists took from us one of the most typical features of a language, but regrettably both these Poles and the Communists cannot be charged with it.
I don't understand what that last phrase is supposed to mean.
You see, I don't agree with some of your corrections either. "It was like a shot in my..." reads as unidiomatic and you didn't mark it. And it should be "The Communists took one of the most typical features of a language from us."

We zijn beide Engelstaligen maar we gaan niet akkord.

We're both English-speakers but we are not in agreement.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Travis B. »

ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪:

Nein, geh nicht weg.
No, don't leave.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:I wanted to say I think this process of eliminating dialects and language diversity was a sort of crime in my opinion
This day and this conversation went so wrong I think I'll leave this forum for a couple days. I just can't believe I could make so many mistakes in such short texts. I also hesitated between this and attempting to improve the level of my communication but the previous 3 days got me so tired I can't think normally.
Bye
I didn't read this before I posted the last time. All life is about learning, it doesn't matter if we make mistakes. Lord knows I bastardize the Dutch language every time I write in it and I do it right in front of several Dutch native speakers. We're all here to learn, there's nothing wrong with that! As Travis said, don't leave!
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Vijay »

Mistakes don't have to be a bad thing. You could even say it's a good thing; the more mistakes we make, the more we learn. I make tons of mistakes in every language I know, probably even English. (Conveying ideas can be so awkward sometimes).

On the other hand, sometimes we do have to step away from social interactions for the sake of our own sanity. (Some of us, at least). This has happened to me often enough.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Viktor77 wrote:Mijn Poolse vriend* heeft me verteld** dat er heel weinig Poolse dialekten zijn omdat de taal goed gestandaardiseerd is door de tijd heen.
*If you have a single Polish friend, this is ok if the listener is aware of the fact you have a (single) friend that is Polish. "Mijn" here implies definitness. Otherwise use "Een Poolse vriend van mij".
**Or "gezegd". "verklaren" is too formal here.

Meine Erfahrung ist, dass die Polen ihre Dialektvariation herunterspielen, und dass es ein falsches "Mem" ist.
My experience is that the Poles downplay their dialektical variation, and that it's a false "meme". [Based on a kind of wrong nationalism. When pressed, they agree that in the outskirts of Poland there's people "speaking funny", but attribute that to "foreign influence" (which isn't completely besides the truth, but simplifies things a bit).
Viktor77 wrote:We zijn beide Engelstaligen* maar we zijn het niet eens**.
*Using an adjective is far more common than nominalizing it.
**"akkoord" is with two <o>s. "akkoord gaan" is used when you agree with a solution or plan (the semantics of which are always one party that "akkoord gaat" with the other - "we gaan akkoord met je voorstel"), not when you agree with someone on something ("we zijn het erover eens dat we samen verder moeten").


JAL

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

hwhatting wrote:
Imralu wrote:Niliandika sana, lakini nilichoandika kikapotea.
I wrote a lot, but what I wrote got lost.
To słowo wygląda jak zapożyczenie z Arabskiego.
Ce mot a l'apparence d'un emprunt de l'arabe.
Dit woord ziet er uit als een leenwoord uit het Arabisch.

This word looks like a loan from Arabic.
Ndiyo!
Yes, it is!

Diego, tafadhali rudi karibuni.
Diego, please come back soon.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by finlay »

ディエゴさんは15歳だっけ?お前たちはちょっと厳しいと思うよ。俺ならそんなに修正は全く欲しくない。というより、友達はそうやったら怒るよ。もし恥ずかしいミスがあったら、まあ、いいんだけどさ、頼んでいなかったら失礼なんですよ。
How old is Diego again, like 15? You guys are being too strict on him, I think. If it was me I wouldn't want that level of scrutiny on my posts - in fact, if my friend corrects me like that I get angry. Like if it's an embarrassing mistake, fine, but if he hasn't asked for it it's a bit rude to go through it with a fine-toothed comb like that.

(I wouldn't have corrected nearly half as many mistakes as either of you, but then I hear much worse English every day)

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jmcd »

Imralu wrote:Tha crìtheol na reinion eadar a dhà[1]: feumar roimhear air uairibh mar a'[2] fhraingis, feumar call air uairibh mar an tSuaithili.
Creole is between the two: sometimes you need a preposition like in French, sometimes nothing like in Swahili.
[1] Is it possible to use a bare number pronominally Gaelic? In Irish you need a following noun, i.e. idir an dá cheann (lit. "between the two head"). As you can see, there is also a rule blocking lenition before d (the so-called DeNTaLS rule). I thought the same rule applied to Scottish-Gaelic as well.
[2] I think you need a preposition here, i.e. mar anns an Fhraingis.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

I'm 51. I started learning Polish 30 years ago, but I have little practice using it actively outside of the ZBB. Maybe mię was obsolescent even back then, but nobody told me. :-)
Maybe it doesn't matter so much in spoken Polish, where there is little audible difference between „mię” and „mnie”, but in contemporary written Polish, „mię” is basically non-existent, leaving a morphological gap.
It's a pity that the Pole is inactive on holiday because I could discover differences between various variants of Polish if only he also corrected you. I know only townsmen and they're from very few Polish towns so everybody speaks like me and I don't know if there are variants of Polish.
Actually, I've been mostly either busy or tired for the last few weeks, so I basically neglected this thread for most of the time.

I don't know about regional variants of Polish too much, but regarding most urban areas, there's little difference. You could be speaking with a person from Szczecin, Poznań, Kraków or Warsaw, and not even notice it. It's a little bit different in urban Silesia, which has both its own distinct form of Polish and its own minority language.

(But then, I guess, the variety of Polish I'm speaking on a daily basis, isn't exactly standard, having been consciously and subconsciously tweaked in various directions.

An then, there is the kind-of-slang I and Whatchamacallher Meilani have been using in our IM conversation, that's most probably unintelligible to anyone besides the two of us, due to the massive influence of English, Silesian, Finnish, Satie, hermetic jokes, specialist terminology and internet culture.)
hwhatting wrote:
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:It's interesting that Naïda (my interlocutor) corrected me immediately.
Co poprawiała?
Qu'est-ce qu' elle a corrigé?
Wat heeft ze gecorrigeerd?

What did she correct?
I'd definitely use a perfective here.
This error with the time.
You mean, tense?
Zaraz pójdę do domu.
Je vais chez soi maintenant.
Nu ga ik naar huis.
I'll go home now.
It would be more natural to say „Zaraz idę do domu” if the action isn't so far into the future. (Yes, it's a present imperfective verb being used in a way a future perfective would.)
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Ziz »

Diego, en tant que prof d'anglais, je peux te dire que ton anglais est meilleur que celui de mes étudiants "avancés," dont il y a plusieurs qui ont commencé à apprendre la langue avant que tu ne sois né. Ton anglais est pour la plupart correct, et tes fautes sont légères. Je ne veux pas te traiter de haut, mais à la fois, il est important de se souvenir qu'on ne remet pas ton intelligence en question chaque fois qu'on te corrige. Il peut être bien démoralisant de voir qu'il reste beaucoup à apprendre, mais on te corrige strictement pour que tu puisses écrire parfaitement, pareil à un locuteur natif.
Diego, as an English teacher, I can tell you that your English is better than my "advanced" students', among whom there are many who started learning the language before you were born. Your English is mostly correct, and your mistakes are minor. I don't mean to patronize, but at the same time, it's important to remember that people aren't impugning your intelligence each time they correct you. It can be very discouraging to see that there's still a lot to learn, but you're being corrected strictly so that you can write perfectly, as a native speaker would.

Mon copain m'a abandonné pour sa sœur et son mari. On devions sortir dîner, mais il y est allé avec eux à la place. Pas cool.
My boyfriend ditched me for his sister and her husband. We were supposed to go out to dinner, but he went with them instead. Not cool.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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Ziz wrote:Diego, en tant que prof d'anglais, je peux te dire que ton anglais est meilleur que celui de mes étudiants "avancés," dont il y a plusieurs qui ont commencé à apprendre la langue avant que tu ne sois né. Ton anglais est pour la plupart correct, et tes fautes sont légères. Je ne veux pas te traiter de haut, mais à la fois, il est important de se souvenir qu'on ne remet pas ton intelligence en question chaque fois qu'on te corrige. Il peut être bien démoralisant de voir qu'il reste beaucoup à apprendre, mais on te corrige strictement pour que tu puisses écrire parfaitement, pareil à un locuteur natif.

Mon copain m'a abandonné pour sa sœur et son mari. On devait sortir dîner, mais il y est allé avec eux à la place*. Pas cool.
*à la place can't stand at the end of a sentence. You need something like à la place de rester avec moi. Or you could put it between mais and il as in mais, à la place, il.

Où as-tu appris à parler français?

Where did you learn to speak French?
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

jmcd wrote:
Imralu wrote:Tha crìtheol na reinion eadar a dhà[1]: feumar roimhear air uairibh mar a'[2] fhraingis, feumar call air uairibh mar an tSuaithili.
Creole is between the two: sometimes you need a preposition like in French, sometimes nothing like in Swahili.
[1] Is it possible to use a bare number pronominally Gaelic? In Irish you need a following noun, i.e. idir an dá cheann (lit. "between the two head"). As you can see, there is also a rule blocking lenition before d (the so-called DeNTaLS rule). I thought the same rule applied to Scottish-Gaelic as well.
[2] I think you need a preposition here, i.e. mar anns an Fhraingis.
Poa! Sikujua kwamba ninaweza kuandika kwa Kiayalandi.
Cool. I didn't know I could write in Irish.

Laiti mtu angeweza kusahihisha Kiswahili changu.
I wish someone could correct my Swahili.
Last edited by Imralu on Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Ziz »

Viktor77 wrote:Où as-tu appris à parler français?
Where did you learn to speak French?
.האמת שאני לא יכול לנהל שיחה, אבל אני יחסית טוב בדקדוק אז אני יכול לכתוב בסדר
Actually, I can't hold a conversation, but I'm relatively good at the grammar so I can write okay.
Imralu wrote:Laiti mtu angeweza kukwelishi kusahihisha Kiswahili changu.
I wish someone could correct my Swahili.
Yo también. He aprendido un poco leyendo tus aportes.
Me too. I've learned a bit by reading your posts.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Ziz wrote:
Viktor77 wrote:Où as-tu appris à parler français?
Where did you learn to speak French?
.האמת שאני לא יכול לנהל שיחה, אבל אני יחסית טוב בדקדוק אז אני יכול לכתוב בסדר
Actually, I can't hold a conversation, but I'm relatively good at the grammar so I can write okay.

Niko sawa kwa Kiswahili.
I'm the same with Swahili

Nilitaka kujifunza Kiswahili kwenye chuo ya kiserikali (Volkshochschule).
I want to take a Swahili course at a community college/TAFE (Volkshochschule).

Nikifanya, inaelekea sitajifunza sarufi zaidi, lakini nitalazimishwa kusikia na kuzungumza na watu.
If I do that, I probably won't learn any new grammar, but I'll be forced to listen and speak.
Imralu wrote:Laiti mtu angeweza kukwelishi kusahihisha Kiswahili changu.
I wish someone could correct my Swahili.
Yo también. He aprendido un poco leyendo tus aportes.
Me too. I've learned a bit by reading your posts.
Nzuri! Unajifunza nini?
Great! What have you learnt?
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Imralu wrote:Cool. I didn't know I could write in Irish.
Is féidir ná féadann tú. Ar thugais fé?
Maybe you can't. Have you tried?

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

linguoboy wrote:
Imralu wrote:Cool. I didn't know I could write in Irish.
Is féidir ná féadann tú. Ar thugais fé?
Maybe you can't. Have you tried?
Nadhani siwezi. Sikujaribu kwa muda mrefu.
I don't think I can. I haven't tried for a long time.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Ól braon is feic cad a thagann amach!
Drink a little and see what comes out!

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din
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Avisaru
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:02 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by din »

jal wrote:
Viktor77 wrote:We zijn beide Engelstaligen* maar we zijn het niet eens**.
*Using an adjective is far more common than nominalizing it.
**"akkoord" is with two <o>s. "akkoord gaan" is used when you agree with a solution or plan (the semantics of which are always one party that "akkoord gaat" with the other - "we gaan akkoord met je voorstel"), not when you agree with someone on something ("we zijn het erover eens dat we samen verder moeten").
The Flemish would not be 'akkoord' with that explanation (although as a Dutch person I have to say I agree with you). It's probably a French influence
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott

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