Help your fluency in a nifty way

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
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Pole, the
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

Salmoneus wrote:
jal wrote:the internet was too slow to visit the ZBB
This isn't an error, and it's a totally natural thing to say, but it's just such an adorable parsing ambiguity that I had to highlight it!
Mikä?
What?
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kusuri
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by kusuri »

インターネットはZBBに寄ることが出来ない。私も笑った。
The Internet couldn't visit the ZBB. Also gave me a chuckle.

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Salmoneus
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Salmoneus »

The "X is Y to Z" structure is ambiguous in parsing between [X is Y [to Z]] (infinitive) and [X is [Y to Z]] (supine). There is also an ambiguity in the subject of Z.

Hence:
1. The internet was too slow to visit the ZBB
2. The President was too slow to condemn racists

The first is instinctively read with an infinitive with an implied animate subject; the latter is read with a supine (he's not necessarily "slow" in general, he's "slow to condemn") with the same subject as the copula.

"Slow" is an adjective that is particularly open to the supine interpretation. So it's tempting to read 1 with the grammar of 2 - that is, "the internet", conceived of as an animate creature, is "slow to visit" (reluctant, loathe, just incapable somehow) the ZBB. Jal was standing there shouting at it, whipping it along because it didn't want to come here. It was just an adorable image. Poor internet. We like you, internet, you can visit whenever you want!

The infinite/supine parsing ambiguity can also be seen in pairs like:
3. The music was slow to keep the partygoers calm (infinitive of purpose)
4. The drugs were slow to lower the patient's heart rate (supine)

or:
5. The test was hard to deter applicants (infinitive)
6. Your name is hard to pronounce (supine)

[generally the infinitive can be made clear by adding "in order to" or the like, while the supine cannot.]

Similarly, the ambiguity in subject allocation can be seen by itself in pairs like:
7. The roads are too icy to drive (switch)
8. The President is too drunk to drive (no switch)

And
9. That girl is too young to drink (no switch)
10. This milk is too old to drink (switch)

[generally the switching form can take an added "for me/you/him/it" before the "to", whereas the non-switching form can't]

And the two ambiguities can be combined in pairs like:
11. The sexually-aroused President was too hard to concentrate
12. The exacting schoolteacher was too hard to please.

And when both interpretations are sufficiently available, or the context is sufficiently silly, you get a pun, like:
13. A good gigolo is hard to please.


EDIT: and no, I can't say that in Irish.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Msee alinifuata-fuata katika duka la vitabu kwa dakika kumi akiniangalia-angalia wakati wote nilipoangalia kitabu. Haikuwa vigumu kumwona akiniangalia. Ningalipendezwa naye ningalizungumza naye.
A guy followed me around in a bookshop, staring at me anytime I was looking at a book. It wasn't hard to see him looking at me If I had been attracted to him, I would have talked to him.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Wazazi wangu walifanyiwa ukaguzi wa kijenetikia. Nimegundua kwamba mimi ni mtu wa jamaa wa Joseph Stalin.
My parents had themselves genetically tested. I've found out that I'm related to Joseph Stalin.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

Imralu wrote:Wazazi wangu walifanyiwa ukaguzi wa kijenetikia. Nimegundua kwamba mimi ni mtu wa jamaa wa Joseph Stalin.
My parents had themselves genetically tested. I've found out that I'm related to Joseph Stalin.
Mon première réaction étais chercher le like bouton, la deuxième étais rire (de moi).
My first reaction was searching for the like button. the second was laugh (at me).
In Budapest:
- Hey mate, are you hung-a-ry?

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Znex
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Znex »

Jeg vet ikke hvem i stor detalj var mine forfedre, men jeg er sikker at mange av dem var bra mennesker. :)
I don't know who my ancestors were in great detail, but I'm sure many of them were good people.

Og jeg er sikker at Stalin ikke er en av mine forfedre.
And I'm sure Stalin is not one of my ancestors.
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Pole, the
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

Og jeg er sikker at Stalin ikke er en av mine forfedre.
And I'm sure Stalin is not one of my ancestors.
Minä sanoisin, ettei hän ole minunkaan, mutta ei sitä koskaan tiedä.
I'd say he isn't one of mine either, but you never know.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Haiwezekani awe mhangu wangu, basi ahali wangu, kama binamu wa mbali.
He can't be an ancestor of mine, but a (distant) relative of mine, like a distant cousin.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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hwhatting
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:Ma première réaction était chercher le like bouton, la deuxième était rire (de moi).
My first reaction was searching for the like button. the second was laugh (at me).
I don't think that everything I didn't mark is correct, but somebody with better French than me should look at that.
Imralu wrote:He can't be an ancestor of mine, but a (distant) relative of mine, like a distant cousin.
Jeżeli wrócimy dość daleko, wzsystcy jesteśmy dalekimi kuzynamy.
Si nous rémontons assez longtemps, nous tous sommes des cousins éloignés.
Als wij ver genoeg teruggaan, zijn we helemaal kozijnen in de verte.

If we go back far enough, we all are distant cousins.

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jal
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Als we ver genoeg teruggaan, zijn we helemaal familie in de verte.
You had me chuckle there, a "kozijn" is a frame, like a window frame :).

Genau, wir sind alle Brüder!
Indeed, we're all brothers!


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hwhatting
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:
hwhatting wrote:Als we ver genoeg teruggaan, zijn we helemaal familie in de verte.
You had me chuckle there, a "kozijn" is a frame, like a window frame :).
Hm. Heeft dit woordenboek simpel ongelijk of is kozijn maar zeldzaam (of verouderd) met de betekenis "cousin"?
Hm. Is this dictionary plain wrong or is kozijn just rarely used (or obsolescent?) in the meaning "cousin"?

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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

hwhatting wrote:
Imralu wrote:He can't be an ancestor of mine, but a (distant) relative of mine, like a distant cousin.
Jeżeli wrócimy dość daleko, wzsystcy jesteśmy dalekimi kuzynamy.
Si nous rémontons assez longtemps, nous tous sommes des cousins éloignés.
Als wij ver genoeg teruggaan, zijn we helemaal kozijnen in de verte.

If we go back far enough, we all are distant cousins.
Ndiyo, lakini inaelekea niko karibu naye kuliko wewe.
Yes, but I'm probably closer to him than you are.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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jal
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Heeft dit woordenboek simpelweg* ongelijk of is kozijn maar zeldzaam (of verouderd) met de betekenis "cousin"?
*Or "gewoon".

Es ist offensichtlich ein informelle Flämische Gallizismus.
It appears to be a colloquial Flemish gallicism.


JAL

hwhatting
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Es ist scheinbar ein informeller flämischer Gallizismus.
It appears to be a colloquial Flemish gallicism.
Dziękuję za wytłumaczenie!
Hvala za izjavu!
Merci pour l'explication!
Gracias por la explicación!
Grazie per la spiegazione!
Dank je voor de verklaring!
Açıklamadan teşekkür ederim!
Түсіндіруге рақмет!
Tushuntirish uchun rahmat!

Thanks for the explanation!

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linguoboy
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Findest du es okay, HaWe, wenn du wie ein informeller Flame klingst?
Are you okay with sounding like a colloquial Fleming, H-W?

hwhatting
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

linguoboy wrote:Findest du es okay, HaWe, wenn du wie ein informeller Flame klingst?
Are you okay with sounding like a colloquial Fleming, H-W?
Tak, nie mam nic przeciwko.
Oui, ça ne me gêne pas.
Ja, dat vind ik niet erg.

Yes, I don't mind.

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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Kuna vitu vibaya zaidi.
There are worse things.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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linguoboy
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Ich hatte vorgebhabt, unsere Sommerjobberin zu einem Eis einzuladen als Dank für ihre hervorragende Arbeit. Dann hat sie eine Menge Katalogisate gelöscht und ich hab mich entschieden stattdessen mit einem Kollegen ein Pint Gelato zu teilen.
I'd planned to take our summer student out for ice cream to thank her for her terrific work. Then she deleted a bunch of records from the catalog and I decided instead to split a pint of gelato with a coworker.

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Imralu
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Imralu »

Kwa nini alifuta faili? Au alifanya bila nia?
Why did she delete the files? Or did she do it unintentionally?
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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jal
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Wann ich auf Urlaub in Frankreich war, habe ich endlich eine französische Version von "Der Hobbit" gekauft. Ich habe jetzt eine spanische, italienische, französische, dänische, englische und niederländische Version. Aber noch immer keine deutsche :(.
When I was in France on holiday, I finally bought a French version of "The Hobbit". I currently have a Spanish, French, Danish, English and Dutch version. But still no German one :(.

Btw, the translation of the first chapter title is a bit weird: "Une fête inattendue". Can French "fête" be used like English "party", i.e. a travelling party? Or has the translater completely missed the point??


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Salmoneus
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Salmoneus »

jal wrote:Wann ich auf Urlaub in Frankreich war, habe ich endlich eine französische Version von "Der Hobbit" gekauft. Ich habe jetzt eine spanische, italienische, französische, dänische, englische und niederländische Version. Aber noch immer keine deutsche :(.
When I was in France on holiday, I finally bought a French version of "The Hobbit". I currently have a Spanish, French, Danish, English and Dutch version. But still no German one :(.

Btw, the translation of the first chapter title is a bit weird: "Une fête inattendue". Can French "fête" be used like English "party", i.e. a travelling party? Or has the translater completely missed the point??


JAL
It's not a travelling party in the English, it's a dinner party.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Io
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Io »

שלום לכולם
Sup bitches!

Would anyone care to help me find the lyrics of the following song with nikud or Latinise it for me?

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/victoria- ... yrics.html

Vijay
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Vijay »

ഇതാ.
[jiˈd̪aː].
Here.

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Io
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Io »

Oh boy, do I feel dumb, I only had to see/click on the "transliteration" button.

Thanks a bunch!

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