Scandinavian (Now with more isoglosses)

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:46 pm

rickardspaghetti wrote:If we can abolish Scania, I'm game.

No. Go away.

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:50 pm

Xonen wrote:Wow. And I thought I obsess about stuff too much.

*cough* oh well...

Xonen wrote:Speaking of that, you don't actually think Swedish has a monopoly on irrational spelling pronunciations, do you?

Of course not

Xonen wrote:Not that I won't be your loyal servant when the time comes to take over Scandinavia and implement our rational happy unified spelling system.

rickardspaghetti · Post by **rickardspaghetti** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:54 pm

Aszev wrote:
rickardspaghetti wrote:If we can abolish Scania, I'm game.
No. Go away.

I'm afraid I cannot do that, Aszev.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:44 pm

I think its weird spelling it <og>, because <g> always stands for one of /g j x\ Z/ (well, at least in my speech), never for Ø or /k/.

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:01 pm

Qwynegold wrote:I think its weird spelling it <og>, because <g> always stands for one of /g j x\ Z/ (well, at least in my speech), never for Ø or /k/.

That's because your speech is most likely horribly standardized according to spelling rules. Final <g> is commonly /Ø/ in non-bookish speech, especially in frequent words. Besides, if you pay attention I'm fairly sure that even you have pronunciations like /dA:/, /jA:/ and /tu:/ for dag, jag and tog when you don't pay attention to how you speak, or emphasize the words. And there isn't supposed to be a /k/ in och, that's the entire point.

Xephyr · Post by **Xephyr** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:02 pm

Agricola Avicula wrote:http://home.hccnet.nl/leon.vogels/Scand ... guages.jpg]

What language is that key in? Parts of it look like Dutch to me, others like Danish, others like Swedish.

(also, 68 shades of turquoise?

)

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:32 pm

Aszev wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:I think its weird spelling it <og>, because <g> always stands for one of /g j x\ Z/ (well, at least in my speech), never for Ø or /k/.
That's because your speech is most likely horribly standardized according to spelling rules. Final <g> is commonly /Ø/ in non-bookish speech, especially in frequent words. Besides, if you pay attention I'm fairly sure that even you have pronunciations like /dA:/, /jA:/ and /tu:/ for dag, jag and tog when you don't pay attention to how you speak, or emphasize the words. And there isn't supposed to be a /k/ in och, that's the entire point.

Oh yeah, you're right. I do say /dA:/ and /jA:/ (but not /tu:/).

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:33 pm

Xephyr wrote:
Agricola Avicula wrote:http://home.hccnet.nl/leon.vogels/Scand ... guages.jpg]
What language is that key in? Parts of it look like Dutch to me, others like Danish, others like Swedish.

(also, 68 shades of turquoise? )

It is Dutch (and I thought Agricola Avicula was a Finn :/ ).

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Qwynegold wrote:
Xephyr wrote:
Agricola Avicula wrote:http://home.hccnet.nl/leon.vogels/Scand ... guages.jpg]
What language is that key in? Parts of it look like Dutch to me, others like Danish, others like Swedish.

(also, 68 shades of turquoise? )
It is Dutch (and I thought Agricola Avicula was a Finn :/ ).

Dutch with some native terms mixed in.

Also, the Finn was Mikael Agricola

By a funny coincidence I was reading about the debate on his native tongue in a book today

Agricola Avicula · Post by **Agricola Avicula** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:16 am

Aszev wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:
Xephyr wrote:
Agricola Avicula wrote:http://home.hccnet.nl/leon.vogels/Scand ... guages.jpg]
What language is that key in? Parts of it look like Dutch to me, others like Danish, others like Swedish.

(also, 68 shades of turquoise? )
It is Dutch (and I thought Agricola Avicula was a Finn :/ ).
Dutch with some native terms mixed in.

Also, the Finn was Mikael Agricola By a funny coincidence I was reading about the debate on his native tongue in a book today

I used Dutch for languages/dialects that had Dutch names, and native terms for the others. The 68 shades of turquoise are a result of my original funny plan to do all languages of Europe, of which the Germanic family would be shades of blue. Obviously, the idea that I was ever going to present the map to others who would have to be able to read it never crossed my mind.

I didn't know Mikael Agricola, so that's just a coincidence.

johanpeturdam · Post by **johanpeturdam** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:52 am

Denmark definitely needs more divisions, and the Faroes are too small on the map to make any comprehensible divisions. Just look at this map, which in itself is pretty rough:

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:47 am

The thing is, that my map isn't meant to show every dialect or every subdivision. It's supposed to show major dialectal areas, and several of these have huge variety in them. Maybe Denmark should have more, I don't know for sure, because I haven't been able to look into Danish varieties properly. I've been using the commonly accepted major divisions of Danish, just as I have with the northern varieties. The risk is that if I'd start dividing into smaller areas with more in common, then I'd end up with a map similar to Agricola Avicula's, and that would be beyond my original purpose.

I try to see my map as an alternative to the classic West vs East maps (which I believe aren't quite spot on). Of course mine's more specific, but that's still the approximate level of division that I'm after.

johanpeturdam · Post by **johanpeturdam** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:56 am

OK... In that case the differences between the Faroese dialects probably aren't substantial enough to necessarily divide them on your map... Though you should take a closer look at Danish though.

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:24 pm

I made a new version of the map, experimenting some more with it, adding Dalecarlian (which is in no way identical to Elfdalian, which belongs to it) as its own group, and also adding Norn for the lulz.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:13 pm

What about American Swedish?

Agricola Avicula wrote:I didn't know Mikael Agricola, so that's just a coincidence.

Really? So who did you get your username from?

Anders · Post by **Anders** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:52 pm

Qwynegold wrote:What about American Swedish?

Yeah, what about American Swedish!?
Jag har att veta om det!

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:02 pm

Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:What about American Swedish?
Yeah, what about American Swedish!?

It's not on the map, unlike Runö or whatever island it is and Gammelsvenskby.

Anders wrote:Jag har att veta om det!

Jag förstår inte din grammatik.

Agricola Avicula · Post by **Agricola Avicula** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:43 pm

Qwynegold wrote:What about American Swedish?

Agricola Avicula wrote:I didn't know Mikael Agricola, so that's just a coincidence.
Really? So who did you get your username from?

It's loosely derived from my real name. Don't feel like giving a detailed explanation now, though. My bed's calling me.

Åge Kruger · Post by **Åge Kruger** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:48 am

Qwynegold wrote:
Anders wrote:Jag har att veta om det!
Jag förstår inte din grammatik.

Try translating, a word at a time, into English.

Anders · Post by **Anders** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:06 pm

Qwynegold wrote:
Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:What about American Swedish?
Yeah, what about American Swedish!?
It's not on the map, unlike Runö or whatever island it is and Gammelsvenskby.

I know it's not on the map. I was filling in on what you said. It was directed to Azsev.

Qwynegold wrote:
Anders wrote:Jag har att veta om det!
Jag förstår inte din grammatik.

Svenskamerikaner pratar ungefär så. På eng. I have to know så med förengelskad svenska 'jag har att veta'.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:47 pm

Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:
Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:What about American Swedish?
Yeah, what about American Swedish!?
It's not on the map, unlike Runö or whatever island it is and Gammelsvenskby.
I know it's not on the map. I was filling in on what you said. It was directed to Azsev.

Oh huh, damn internet.

Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:
Anders wrote:Jag har att veta om det!
Jag förstår inte din grammatik.
Svenskamerikaner pratar ungefär så. På eng. I have to know så med förengelskad svenska 'jag har att veta'.

Ånej.

Anders · Post by **Anders** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:24 pm

Qwynegold wrote:Ånej.

Har du inte hört det? Jag såg en gång en svenskamerikan på TV som hela tiden sa "jag hade att ..." i stället för 'jag måste ...' eller 'jag var tvungen att ...' eller nått mer svenskt uttryckssätt. Anglicismerna haglade.

Man undrar ju lite hur sverigearabiska låter. Tycker araber i Arabien att araber från Sverige pratar konstigt?

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:38 pm

The Swedish spoken by emigrants in the 19th century is not really interesting, because those people spoke their own dialect and then got americanized and switched to English. There was never any particular American Swedish among those people.

In the colony of New Sweden there was probably a koiné dialect, with most influence from Geatish. There were people in this area who spoke Swedish until the early 1800s (not many of them). Not much is known about how these people spoke though, and I cba to write down what is known here. Instead you'll have to be happy with three words from there: kungsfågel 'hummingbird' (SSw. kolibri) [Old word given new meaning, 'kungsfågel' is goldcrest in SSw.], espan 'raccoon' (SSw. tvättbjörn) [Lenape loanword], fiskatt 'skunk' (SSw. skunk) [fis 'fart' + katt 'cat'].

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:02 pm

I thought there were some people somewhere in USA who still spoke a really old-fashioned Swedish.

Anders wrote:
Qwynegold wrote:Ånej.

Har du inte hört det?

Nej.

Travis B. · Post by **Travis B.** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:56 pm

Qwynegold wrote:I thought there were some people somewhere in USA who still spoke a really old-fashioned Swedish.

I am not so sure about Swedish, but I know that there are still people from parts of North Dakota and Minnesota which apparently still speak various Norwegian dialects...