Scandinavian (Now with more isoglosses)

[Spandaux]

I'm pretty sure I don't speak Greater Danish

I must've pointed this out at least 3 times by now; the map shows historical and traditional varieties and has nothing to do with the book language people speak today. And where did you get "Greater Danish" from anyway?

I live near Malmö, and in Malmö there is a bridge to Copenhagen. I am pretty sure they speak Greater Danish is Copenhagen.

And that is relevant here how?

Because you asked me why I wrote Greater Danish.

[rickardspaghetti]

text

Du uttalar <de> og <det> likadant?

Japp.

[Aszev]

I'm pretty sure I don't speak Greater Danish :|

I must've pointed this out at least 3 times by now; the map shows historical and traditional varieties and has nothing to do with the book language people speak today. And where did you get "Greater Danish" from anyway?

I live near Malmö, and in Malmö there is a bridge to Copenhagen. I am pretty sure they speak Greater Danish is Copenhagen.

And that is relevant here how?

Because you asked me why I wrote Greater Danish.

You really are making 0 sense here.

text

Du uttalar <de> og <det> likadant?

Japp.

Heh, läsuttal deluxe :)

[Aszev]

Newest installment!

I made a webpage about the traditional dialects of Blekinge. It's in Swedish only though, so my apologies to you who don't speak Scandinavian.

BLEKINGSKA - DIALEKTERNA I BLEKINGE

[Aszev]

Followup!

This time it's about Gotland. Again, it's in Swedish only, so my apologies to you who don't speak Scandinavian.

I did this in two stages, so my apologies in advance in case there are any mistakes or something missed.

GUTNISKA - DIALEKTERNA PÅ GOTLAND

[Aszev]

I threw this map together last night for something completely unrelated, but I thought I could share it here anyway. It shows the development of the Old Norse singular neuter definite article -it in the traditional dialects in Sweden.



Green: -ed (hused, taged)
Red: -(e)t (hust/huset, taket)
Yellow: -e (huse, take/tatje)
Blue: -Ø with lengthening (ish) (huus, taak)
Purple: -i (husi, taki)
Orange: -eð (auseð, tatjeð) (Yes, this is elfdalian/älvdalsmål, but also våmhusmål)
Grey: No traditional Scandinavian dialect

the words are huset (the house) and taket (the roof/ceiling)

[Åge Kruger]

Just thought I would so that not only am I following this thread, but enjoying it very much.

[Anders]

Just thought I would so that not only am I following this thread, but enjoying it very much.

So do I

[Yiuel Raumbesrairc]

The small island is diverse, especially the presence of the blue version. Also the purple variant, one part of the island, the other part mainland, and a quite large strech of sea between them. That could help conlangers go beyond usually assumptions.

[Aszev]

Thanks guys!

[Xonen]

Just thought I would so that not only am I following this thread, but enjoying it very much.

Ditto. In fact, I just had to give a presentation on Scandinavian dialects a week ago, and I even managed to use this and the associated webpages as source material.

Now, moar isoglossz.

[Qwynegold]

Hmm? I live in the yellow area but I don't think anyone here says huset or taket without the final t.

[Miekko]

Hmm? I live in the yellow area but I don't think anyone here says huset or taket without the final t.

1) yes they do. you're just so used to reading it with /t#/ that your mind even inserts it there even when you don't hear it. (Wasn't it you we went over final -g with some time ago as well?)

2) anyone in the yellow area who actually does pronounce final t in the definite article - and I admit they've been getting increasingly common - are reverting to spelling pronunciations. the genuine, local way of pronouncing it up to a fair bit into the twentieth century was with silent -t.

[Aszev]

Just throwing in this map,




Also thanks Xonen :)

[Magb]

Just throwing in this map,

*dative map*


Also thanks Xonen

I wonder what that map would look like if you polled present-day speakers aged, say, 30 or less.

Great thread by the way.

[Aszev]

The red area denotes the area where ON -R was not lost in indefinite masculine plurals or the type hestaR. Danish is the only standard language who does this however, cf. heste.

[Skomakar'n]

Hmm? I live in the yellow area but I don't think anyone here says huset or taket without the final t.

I live in the red area and I pronounce it without the final -t.
Usually it's just silent, but occasionally, it's a thick l.

[Ulrike Meinhof]

Hmm? I live in the yellow area but I don't think anyone here says huset or taket without the final t.

You live in Stockholm, right? People pronounce the article -e all time, listen closer.

As for Aszev's text. I was born and raised and still live slightly outside Stockholm, I'm 19 years old.

po dEn tidEn ja s\EndE m(@) litEn bUdE ja ijEn litEn st}ga ijEt lONt land sOm jantE vet namnE po. st}gan log tIsamans m(@) flera andra st}gEr O h}s poN god` mElan tfo oar vI hAve. dOm sOm (h)adE bYkt h}sEn po god`En mOstA blivI firadE, f9rE vA vErklIEn En vakEr syn O serOm, vIsa sA atE likna himElrikEt. do (rather Eft(@)s`Om) de vA kfEl, O sulEn (ElE monEn O xE:n`(@)n`a) xen porOm vita tAkEn 8ndra man nEstan Om de k8ndE vA po rIktIt El(@) Om man bA ble (or vat`) f8l av O serEn. nE: vI vA po byns strand sog vI Ofta botar {tE po x9n. Ibland s\9ptE mIn fAr (rather papa) EplEn otEn tankl2sa kaptenEn po En A botan`a, haN gA f(@)s`t`Os mEj OksO. kAn` r2ktE pipa O hadEn l2s tand EftatEn stura fIskEn han ((h)adE) fONat ((h)adE) slOtIlan me sIn fena, dE vA nu t}r atanEntE brokamEnElj. I stridEns (h)Eta fans dEntEnEnda drOpE vatEn i xEpE. mEn dE vA vEl EndO fIskEn sOm jUd`E sat dOm boda blev vEnEr, sorEn vAN gu fIsk.

Not the most careful transcription, neither fully phonemic nor fully phonetic. Some of the E's are probably usually closer to @. The r's are lowered alveolar approximants.

I didn't see a single ä before r? Nor the word "är"?

[Skomakar'n]

The red area denotes the area where ON -R was not lost in indefinite masculine plurals or the type hestaR. Danish is the only standard language who does this however, cf. heste.

I only have the -r in the nominative. Not in the accusative.
The same goes for Icelandic.

I guess you mean nominative only, though.

[Aszev]

Dingbats: Not having "är" in it is a bit fail of me, I guess that's what I get for writing in the past tense and not thinking enough :<

Skomakar'n: hestaR is nominative. The map refers to that particular ending.

[Skomakar'n]

Dingbats: Not having "är" in it is a bit fail of me, I guess that's what I get for writing in the past tense and not thinking enough :<

Skomakar'n: hestaR is nominative. The map refers to that particular ending.

Yeah, I guessed so.
My knowledge of geography sucks, though, so I actually don't know if I live in the red area or slightly below it, but I guess I probably live in it, since I have that -r. I'll have to find me a map.

EDIT:
I live below. Stupid people of Gothenburg speaking entirely different from everybody else in Västergötland and ruining my idiolect...

[johanpeturdam]

Skomakar'n: hestaR is nominative. The map refers to that particular ending.

Would make sense, since Faroese accusative -r is from analogy with the nominative.

"Eg síggi tveir hestar".

AFAIK, in ON and Icelandic this form is 'hesta', same as the genitive, right?

[Aszev]

Time to bump this with a fresh isogloss map!

You know you want it.

[Skomakar'n]

/d:/? Awesome. I had no idea. Could you give me some examples?

[Magb]

/d:/? Awesome. I had no idea. Could you give me some examples?

/l:/ > /d:/ today occurs in Setesdalsk, and some of the dialects of Western Telemark (at least Vinje, possibly some of Tokke and Tinn). Aszev's map suggests that it extends a bit further north than I had realized. A lot of the orange area is barely inhabited; the population of the entire orange area is probably a mere 10-20,000 people, if that.

Examples would include most words that have /l:/ in ON, e.g. add ("all", ON allr), kadde ("to call", ON kalla), fjødd ("mountain", ON fjall).

I may have talked about Setesdalsk here before, but if so I'll repeat myself. If there's any Norwegian dialect that deserves to be regarded as a distinct language, this is it. It has the dative case, it has faithfully preserved most of the noun declensions and verb conjugations of Old Norse, it's subjected the ON vowel system to an amount of diphthongization to rival Faroese in its ridiculousness, it has an incredibly archaic lexicon, and so on. Unfortunately it seems to be moribund, as reportedly the speech of the younger generation is more akin to the southern dialect of nearby Kristiansand. This website is a great resource for information on the dialect -- probably the best such resource for any Norwegian dialect. I've spent quite a bit of time reading about the dialect on the Vallemal website and elsewhere, so I should be able to answer most questions.

Edit: here's a music video by a band singing in the dialect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFxkxrYh1Ok