The surname Nuppenau

[Ziz]

Uh I think it's just a simplification of /sj/. Like, "Marcia" was at one point /mArsj@/ --> now /mArS@/. That would be the simplest explanation, surely.

Yeah. You also get /S/ for <si> in words like "fission" (and similarly /Z/ for earlier */zj/, eg. "fusion").

Er, for me, fission has /ʒ/ as well. Probably by analogy with fusion, I guess. I had an American science teacher who pronounced it with /ʃ/, but then again, she insisted upon species as /ˈspisiz/ rather than /ˈspiʃiz/. No one does that, except on TV...

EDIT: But yes, it's called yod coalescence.

[Guitarplayer II]

In German, it's read as [ts] before front vowels. Nativized spellings even render it as <z> or, in the case of original <ci>, <ti> [tsi].

[Viktor77]

EDIT: But yes, it's called yod coalescence.

Ooooh, this would explain why our exchange student Tjark kept getting called Chark and Shark.

[eodrakken]

but then again, she insisted upon species as /ˈspisiz/ rather than /ˈspiʃiz/. No one does that, except on TV...

I say [ˈspisiz]. I always thought both were valid.

[Viktor77]

Bump.

[finlay]

EDIT: But yes, it's called yod coalescence.

Ooooh, this would explain why our exchange student Tjark kept getting called Chark and Shark.

Isn't tS how one would pronounce it?

I had a friend who pronounced the word question with /sti.@n/ at the end, where mine is /StS@n/ – when I questioned him about it (no pun intended) he told me he refused to believe that ‹ti› would become /tS/. He was from Gibraltar, you see, and hating the accent that he grew up around, he grew up speaking a possibly hypercorrected or exaggerated RP variety.

[Alces]

Ah, thank you. So do you know if this is more prevalent in the US?

I doubt it's more prevalent in the US. I know I always pronounce them with /S/, and most British speakers go even further with yod-coalescence than Americans, turning /tj dj/ into /tS dZ/, while the /j/ is simply dropped in most American dialects.

[MrKrov]

What a wasteful lot we Americans are.

[Kai_DaiGoji]

What I never understood about the awesome first name Ransom is that when it was popular, in the late 19th century, the noun of the same name also existed. The noun doesn't exactly have the best meaning (it's not like the name Gaylord which has changed meaning over time), why would Victorians feel comfortable naming their child Ransom?

It's like the name Death - Dorothy Sayers wrote a whole series of novels about the Edwardian gentleman-detective Lord Peter Death Bredon Whimsy. British people are weird.

[Astraios]

British people are weird.

Naturally. If we were normal, we'd be boring.

[Dewrad]

I would assume that it's from the surname Ransom, which is just Ranulf's son.

[Viktor77]

I had a friend who pronounced the word question with /sti.@n/ at the end, where mine is /StS@n/ – when I questioned him about it (no pun intended) he told me he refused to believe that ‹ti› would become /tS/. He was from Gibraltar, you see, and hating the accent that he grew up around, he grew up speaking a possibly hypercorrected or exaggerated RP variety.

The name is Frisian though, it should be pronounced [tj]. I know people have a tendency to say [tS], or [S] for God knows why, but honestly, would you want to be called Chark or Shark? To solve this he went by TJ and more playfully T-Shark. I don't know how Germans say it, but I imagine with a [tj].

Thanks for the other answers. It's a curious name, Ransom, I love it and would so name someone it if it wasn't equivalent to putting a neon sign on your child saying Please Bully Me Now....

[Viktor77]

So I'm going to bump this because I discovered a German toponym which includes Nuppen which is Nuppen-berg, Niedersachsen. Could it be that the surname Nuppenau is someone from the water meadows of Nuppen-berg?

Perhaps also Nuppenau is someone who creates glass prunts? What is the etymology of nuppen ie. prunt in German and how old is this art?

[linguoboy]

So I'm going to bump this

If the third time's a charm, what's the fourth time?

Perhaps also Nuppenau is someone who creates glass prunts? What is the etymology of nuppen ie. prunt in German and how old is this art?

None of the dictionaries I consulted had the "[glass] prunt" definition of Nuppe/Noppe. But it could be easily derived from the core meaning, since Kluge considers the word a Low German cognate of Knopf "knob" (cf. Eng knob, k(nub). However, there's absolutely no precedent for an occupational surname ending in -(n)au. One would expect either some compound like *Nuppenmaker or else straightforward metonymy.

Similarly, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me that the name of a hill would be transferred to the name of an adjacent water meadow, particularly if the basic sense of the modifying element is "protuberance".

There's another possibility which wasn't mentioned before: Bahlow gives Nobbe as a Frisian diminutive of the given name Notbert. It's easy to see how Nuppe could be a variant of this (with or without the effect of folk etymology). Nuppenau would thus be "Nubby's lea".

[Viktor77]

None of the dictionaries I consulted had the "[glass] prunt" definition of Nuppe/Noppe. But it could be easily derived from the core meaning, since Kluge considers the word a Low German cognate of Knopf "knob" (cf. Eng knob, k(nub). However, there's absolutely no precedent for an occupational surname ending in -(n)au. One would expect either some compound like *Nuppenmaker or else straightforward metonymy.

Similarly, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me that the name of a hill would be transferred to the name of an adjacent water meadow, particularly if the basic sense of the modifying element is "protuberance".

There's another possibility which wasn't mentioned before: Bahlow gives Nobbe as a Frisian diminutive of the given name Notbert. It's easy to see how Nuppe could be a variant of this (with or without the effect of folk etymology). Nuppenau would thus be "Nubby's lea".

While the Frisian alternative seems easy to believe, the majority of people with this surname reside in Schleswig-Holstein and in Denmark/Jutland so I can't see how Frisian would play much a role. I can't find a Jutish dictionary (this is what I need, really) but Nobbe in Danish is a small protrusion on say, skin, so the same as German Nuppen just for skin. This could be cognate with the Low German I imagine. Nuppe is also a word equivalent to English nab, so perhaps could reference someone who is swift. Au translates into Danish as Eng but in Jutish it could be Au, so the options so far for Danish/Jutish/Low German could be the lea of someone who nabs things (this seems unlikely) or maybe a lea with many protrusions like tiny hills.

[linguoboy]

While the Frisian alternative seems easy to believe, the majority of people with this surname reside in Schleswig-Holstein and in Denmark/Jutland so I can't see how Frisian would play much a role.

Are you fucking kidding me? Look at this map and tell me where speakers of "North Frisian" are located.

maybe a lea with many protrusions like tiny hills.

There wouldn't have to be "many"; it could be a single lea which protrudes more than others.

[Viktor77]

While the Frisian alternative seems easy to believe, the majority of people with this surname reside in Schleswig-Holstein and in Denmark/Jutland so I can't see how Frisian would play much a role.

Are you fucking kidding me? Look at this map and tell me where speakers of "North Frisian" are located.

maybe a lea with many protrusions like tiny hills.

There wouldn't have to be "many"; it could be a single lea which protrudes more than others.

Ok, ok, people with this name were more inland and nonexistent on the Niedersachsen coast so it didn't occur to me to realise there were Frisian speakers on the Schleswig/Danish coast but I guess that could just be migration.

nuppenaukarte.PNG (7.56 KiB) Viewed 3168 times

So we have two ideas of etymology.

1.) Nuppe is a variant of Frisian Nobbe, a diminutive of Notbert. Nuppenau is Nubby's lea.

2). Nuppenau comes from Justish or Low German for protruding water meadow.

Seeing as the some of the most common first names for someone with this surname are Thorsten, Jürgen and Axel , I'm leaning towards a more Scandinavian origin which I think would be more Jutish, unless these names are attested to in Frisian.

[linguoboy]

So we have two ideas of etymology.

1.) Nuppe is a variant of Frisian Nobbe, a diminutive of Notbert. Nuppenau is Nubby's lea.

2). Nuppenau comes from Justish or Low German for protruding water meadow.

Seeing as the some of the most common first names for someone with this surname are Thorsten, Jürgen and Axel , I'm leaning towards a more Scandinavian origin which I think would be more Jutish, unless these names are attested to in Frisian.

Note that not all instances of this surname need to have a common origin. Both hypothesis could be correct.

[Viktor77]

So we have two ideas of etymology.

1.) Nuppe is a variant of Frisian Nobbe, a diminutive of Notbert. Nuppenau is Nubby's lea.

2). Nuppenau comes from Justish or Low German for protruding water meadow.

Seeing as the some of the most common first names for someone with this surname are Thorsten, Jürgen and Axel , I'm leaning towards a more Scandinavian origin which I think would be more Jutish, unless these names are attested to in Frisian.

Note that not all instances of this surname need to have a common origin. Both hypothesis could be correct.

True, but when there's only 120 odd people in Germany with the name and only 40 odd people in Denmark, it comes across as at least unlikely.

[linguoboy]

True, but when there's only 120 odd people in Germany with the name and only 40 odd people in Denmark, it comes across as at least unlikely.

Why?

[Viktor77]

True, but when there's only 120 odd people in Germany with the name and only 40 odd people in Denmark, it comes across as at least unlikely.

Why?

I guess just human logic, intuition, whatever?

[Pthagnar]

True, but when there's only 120 odd people in Germany with the name and only 40 odd people in Denmark, it comes across as at least unlikely.

Why?

I guess just human logic, intuition, whatever?

It is more honest to say "Because I reckon so"

[Acid Badger]

Seeing as the some of the most common first names for someone with this surname are Thorsten, Jürgen and Axel , I'm leaning towards a more Scandinavian origin which I think would be more Jutish, unless these names are attested to in Frisian.

Actually all three names are widespread throughout the whole country

[Jipí]

Also, Viktor, it's not like regionally different etymologies with the same surface form can't exist. For example:

Der Name kann von der Berufsbezeichnung Bäcker abstammen, aber auch von jemandem, der an einem Bach (beck) wohnte. Eine Abstammung von einem Stonebaecker (Steinbäcker) ist ebenfalls möglich, desgleichen von Pech (bech) und (Metall-)Becken (ein Bader konnte auch als Becker bezeichnet werden, weil vor seinem Laden ein Messingbecken als Rasierschale hing). [...] Die Familiennamen Beck und Becke sind in Süddeutschland verbreitet als Varianten zu Becker. In Norddeutschland sind sie meist von der alten Bezeichnung Be(c)ke (‚Bach‘) abgeleitet.

And since the English Wikipedia doesn't go as much much into detail, let me translate:

The name may be derived from the professional designation 'baker', as well as from someone who used to live near a stream (beck). A derivation from a Stonebaecker (brick baker) is also possible, also from pitch (bech) and a (metal) bowl (a Bader ['barber'?] could also be called a Becker because a brass bowl for shaving hung down in front of his shop). [...] The surnames Beck and Becke are widespread variants of Becker in Southern Germany. In Northern Germany they are often derived from the old term Be(c)ke ('stream').

[finlay]

I feel like I should point out that I've noted the nomenclature "beck" for streams in Yorkshire as well, even though it's not particularly relevant.