The horse (that) raced past the barn fell

[Magb]

I read the Brothers Karamazov recently (I'm not sure which English translation), and was struck by all the examples of that/who-dropping in places where I don't think many would find it grammatical today. A good example that was used on multiple occasions was "It wasn't I _[who] killed him!", but there were many other examples. I've seen similar things in other books from the same era as well. Was this actually allowed in anyone's colloquial English at the time, or was it always a uniquely literary construction?

[mouse]

The horse raced past the barn fell down.

[Radius Solis]

I read the Brothers Karamazov recently (I'm not sure which English translation), and was struck by all the examples of that/who-dropping in places where I don't think many would find it grammatical today. A good example that was used on multiple occasions was "It wasn't I _[who] killed him!", but there were many other examples. I've seen similar things in other books from the same era as well. Was this actually allowed in anyone's colloquial English at the time, or was it always a uniquely literary construction?

1. I don't know. It may even be the other way around, that it was permitted informally but less so in the standard. How colloquial is the general tone of the Brothers Karamazov? A number of pieces of fine and respected literature have been written in colloquial rather than standard, or somewhere in between. (Modern example: Terry Pratchett.) Or I could be wrong about this.


2. In the example you gave, can you be certain it wasn't a different structure that was intended? Sometimes non-relative complementizing "that" can be dropped too, so another possible structure might be "It wasn't _[that] I killed him!" This type of "that"-dropping is rather nonstandard, but still colloquially possible, for example: "What happened was I hurt him, it wasn't I killed him. Stop believing stupid rumors!"

If you are able to provide two or three more examples, including context surrounding each if possible, it would be helpful in telling for sure what's up with them.

[Magb]

1. I don't know. It may even be the other way around, that it was permitted informally but less so in the standard. How colloquial is the general tone of the Brothers Karamazov? A number of pieces of fine and respected literature have been written in colloquial rather than standard, or somewhere in between. (Modern example: Terry Pratchett.) Or I could be wrong about this.

Well, I think by modern standards it generally sounds pretty literary, but it's certainly possible that the language was intended to sound colloquial at the time.

2. In the example you gave, can you be certain it wasn't a different structure that was intended? Sometimes non-relative complementizing "that" can be dropped too, so another possible structure might be "It wasn't _[that] I killed him!" This type of "that"-dropping is rather nonstandard, but still colloquially possible, for example: "What happened was I hurt him, it wasn't I killed him. Stop believing stupid rumors!"

I had thought of that, but I'm very sure that my analysis is right. Here's the quote in context:
"For the last time I repeat, it wasn't I killed him! I was erring, but I loved what is good." (Source, beware of spoilers)

It's very obvious from the context of the scene that what he's saying is "It wasn't I (who) killed him!"

If you are able to provide two or three more examples, including context surrounding each if possible, it would be helpful in telling for sure what's up with them.

Here's another example:
"Listen, it was I caught you, not you me." (Source)

That's all I can find at the moment; it's not so easy to search for these if you don't remember any specific phrases.

[Radius Solis]

2. In the example you gave, can you be certain it wasn't a different structure that was intended? Sometimes non-relative complementizing "that" can be dropped too, so another possible structure might be "It wasn't _[that] I killed him!" This type of "that"-dropping is rather nonstandard, but still colloquially possible, for example: "What happened was I hurt him, it wasn't I killed him. Stop believing stupid rumors!"

I had thought of that, but I'm very sure that my analysis is right. Here's the quote in context:
"For the last time I repeat, it wasn't I killed him! I was erring, but I loved what is good." (Source, beware of spoilers)

It's very obvious from the context of the scene that what he's saying is "It wasn't I (who) killed him!"

Yeah, alright. It actually still wasn't clear to me from what you said here, but then I checked the source, and you're right. Your other example is also definitely a case of a dropped relativizer.

I wish I knew more about the history so I could answer your question, but I just don't. To get a good answer we might have to direct this one to a real expert.

[Rory]

I'm having a similar reaction to the Optimality Theory book I'm presently reading. Much of it is absolutely terrible, and much of it is excellent. It stands head and shoulders higher than generative grammar in scope, elegance, and explanatory power... while simultaneously relying on a ludicrous core model of speech production. Plus I have yet to run into one falsifiable sentence. So I don't know whether to love it or run away as hard as I can, and knowing me, I'll end up doing a bit of both.

Which book? Is it more phonology-focused or syntax-focused?
(PS, OT is still a generative theory; but it's a theory of parallel processing rather than serial processing.)

[maikxlx]

As pointed out earlier, the garden-path in the title of the post should have been written "The horse [that was] raced past the barn fell". IMO this sentence is grammatical only if "raced" is interpreted as the past participle of a transitive verb (in the abortive garden-path parse, "raced" is the past tense of an intransitive).

I doubt this garden-path example works in many languages; English is quirky in having so many verbs that can be either transitive or intransitive. Since the canonical example of this class of English verbs seems to be "burn", perhaps a better garden-path sentence would be:

"The house burned to the ground was uninsured."

[Jipí]

Das Pferd, am Schuppen vorbeigehetzt, fiel. No garden-path because of obligatory commas. It only sounds a little weird maybe.

The old man the boats – Die Alten bemannen die Boote
The author wrote the novel was likely to be a best-seller – Der Autor schrieb, der Roman würde sicher ein Bestseller werden
While the woman dressed the baby threw up – Als sich die Frau anzog, hat das Baby gebrochen (or, in a high register, … erbrach sich das Baby)

None of these are difficult to parse in translation.

[finlay]

I should point out that a lot of these really should have commas in English as well, it's just that they're not as obligatory as they are in german or something.