On the pronunciation of English -ing
On the pronunciation of English -ing
I haven't started any topics for a while
Anyways, I've noticed something about the pronunciation of the English verb ending <-ing>.
In my idiolect, this suffix is pronounced as [-ɨŋ]; <running> would be [ɻʌnɨŋ].
However, several people I know say [-in] instead, making it sound more like <-een>.
What gives? Anyone else notice this?
Anyways, I've noticed something about the pronunciation of the English verb ending <-ing>.
In my idiolect, this suffix is pronounced as [-ɨŋ]; <running> would be [ɻʌnɨŋ].
However, several people I know say [-in] instead, making it sound more like <-een>.
What gives? Anyone else notice this?
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
- roninbodhisattva
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I have [iN] ~ [IN] and sometimes [In] when I shorten the ending.Bedelato wrote:I haven't started any topics for a while
Anyways, I've noticed something about the pronunciation of the English verb ending <-ing>.
In my idiolect, this suffix is pronounced as [-ɨŋ]; <running> would be [ɻʌnɨŋ].
However, several people I know say [-in] instead, making it sound more like <-een>.
What gives? Anyone else notice this?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I have a syllabic /n/ except in very formal speech.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
In normal (fast) speech, I have [ˈɻʌ.nɪn] or [ˈɻʌn.ɪ̯ŋ]~[ˈɻʌn.ŋ]. I think I heard someone on here say that there is California dialect, but I'm on the wrong end of the country to confirm that. It sounds like a Spanish accent to me.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
[In] or [iN] and yes those are the only two options (whoo California Vowel Shift!).
EDIT: At least in my idiolect, I > i /_N and only under those conditions, so the option of which way to pronounce the terminal consonant in -ing determines the pronunciation of the vowel.
EDIT: At least in my idiolect, I > i /_N and only under those conditions, so the option of which way to pronounce the terminal consonant in -ing determines the pronunciation of the vowel.
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
It would help us try and help you figure out what is happenning if you told us where you were from more specifically than 'oh somewhere in the second-largest English-speaking country in the world.' There's at least 6 distinct dialects across the continental US, which are quite different.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Before /ŋ/ English doesn't distinguish the KIT and FLEECE vowels; the "ing" vowel is associated with KIT in most (I think) English dialects but with FLEECE in some American ones. Given this it's not surprising that some of these dialects maintain the FLEECE vowel when they "g drop", giving [in].
Similarly the "ang" vowel can be associated with TRAP or with FACE.
Similarly the "ang" vowel can be associated with TRAP or with FACE.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Historically, -in is probably a retention of the actual participle form, whereas -ing was the gerund.
< Cev> My people we use cars. I come from a very proud car culture-- every part of the car is used, nothing goes to waste. When my people first saw the car, generations ago, we called it šuŋka wakaŋ-- meaning "automated mobile".
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
there's a dichotomy between -ŋ and -n in every English dialect ever, although they're given different social values by different areas. I'm more confused about your vowel, frankly. Where are you from?
(and yeah, they're from the OE participle form -inde and gerund form -ynge)
(and yeah, they're from the OE participle form -inde and gerund form -ynge)
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
USA. It might be observer's paradox, but I could swear that the vowel IMI is [ɨ], high central vowel. When I "g-drop" it's [ɪn]. But I still have trouble assigning it to a lexical set.finlay wrote:there's a dichotomy between -ŋ and -n in every English dialect ever, although they're given different social values by different areas. I'm more confused about your vowel, frankly. Where are you from?
I'm not talking about "g-dropping" (that's a very well-known variation in many Englishes), but something different. I'm talking about what might be an ongoing sound change. I'm mostly concerned with the vowel.
Especially at the end of an utterance, I've begun noticing several people say [in] for the suffix, so that "being" and "bean" almost become homophones.
Some of you mentioned California dialects. I'll look into that, but what with air travel and all that, you can't exactly pinpoint a regional accent anymore.
Last edited by Bedelato on Sun May 01, 2011 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Pick a different word where the "standard" pronunciation doesn't have /i:/ in it anyway and then see what happens. I mean I have something like /bi:n/ for 'being' a lot of the time too simply because /i:ɪ/ is an obvious candidate for assimilation.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Okay. Beginning paraphrase 3:finlay wrote:Pick a different word where the "standard" pronunciation doesn't have /i:/ in it anyway and then see what happens. I mean I have something like /bi:n/ for 'being' a lot of the time too simply because /i:ɪ/ is an obvious candidate for assimilation.
In the speech of several people I've met, the suffix <-ing> is pronounced [-in] so that "morphing" and "morphine" would be almost homophones.
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Where are they from? That's a feature of conservative Southern Midland. Do they also have [im] for "him"?
I'm not quite sure what the environment is for the ɪ > i shift there. My calculus professor spoke conservative Southern Midland and had [dɚˈivəˌɾiv] for "derivative".
I'm not quite sure what the environment is for the ɪ > i shift there. My calculus professor spoke conservative Southern Midland and had [dɚˈivəˌɾiv] for "derivative".
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I hear [iN] all over the place in the USA, in free variation with stuff like [IN] and [1N]. I'd guess that [in] would most likely be due to assimilation from [iN] with the following word?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
For starters, I myself am used to, typically, the informal present participle ending in North American English being -/ɪn/ (for me -[ɨ̃(ː)n]) and the gerund ending and formal present participle ending in NAE being -/ɪŋ/ (for me -[ɨ̃(ː)ŋ]) (and note the vowels here are near-close, but IPA just doesn't typically distinguish close and near-close unrounded central vowels), with some NAE varieties (but not my own) carrying over the former ending to gerunds as well. The only cases where I have heard of NAE varieties having -/iːn/ (presumably something like [ĩ(ː)n]) and -/iːŋ/ (presumably something like -[ĩ(ː)ŋ]), respectively, are NAE varieties in the Pacific Northwest, even though it could be found elsewhere for all I know.
But Bedelato, why are you so ambiguous about where you are from here? NAE varieties are not nearly as homogeneous as you may think they are; saying you are from the US is not saying much here at all.
But Bedelato, why are you so ambiguous about where you are from here? NAE varieties are not nearly as homogeneous as you may think they are; saying you are from the US is not saying much here at all.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- Drydic
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Because, clearly, we are all stalkers who only want to find and CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORED with rivets.Travis B. wrote:But Bedelato, why are you so ambiguous about where you are from here? NAE varieties are not nearly as homogeneous as you may think they are; saying you are from the US is not saying much here at all.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
America is pretty big. Even of you don't want to say the city at least say the state. Think about it, if you live in Wyoming that'd still only narrow you down to 1 in about 560,000 people (well less really as not every person in the state is connected to the intertubes but you get what I'm saying).
That sounds so weird, and I live in a part of the country where for some speakers wash rhymes with whore.Nort wrote:[dɚˈivəˌɾiv] for "derivative".
In every U.S. presidential election between 1976 and 2004, the Republican nominee for president or for vice president was either a Dole or a Bush.
- Nortaneous
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Not to mention that the question is where the speakers with /in/ are from. I live in Maryland, but one of my high school teachers lived in Virginia.sirred wrote:America is pretty big. Even of you don't want to say the city at least say the state. Think about it, if you live in Wyoming that'd still only narrow you down to 1 in about 560,000 people (well less really as not every person in the state is connected to the intertubes but you get what I'm saying).
Intrusive r in "wash" is pretty common. I think /I/-tensing is either a Maryland thing or a Tennessee thing.That sounds so weird, and I live in a part of the country where for some speakers wash rhymes with whore.Nort wrote:[dɚˈivəˌɾiv] for "derivative".
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
- Drydic
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I just noticed something.
Yes, yes you can. Most people really don't move all that far from where they grew up, generally.Bedelato wrote:Some of you mentioned California dialects. I'll look into that, but what with air travel and all that, you can't exactly pinpoint a regional accent anymore.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
And even if they did, just because it's easy to travel does not mean that a Dubliner will sound like she's from West Texas in about a week.Drydic Guy wrote:I just noticed something.
Yes, yes you can. Most people really don't move all that far from where they grew up, generally.Bedelato wrote:Some of you mentioned California dialects. I'll look into that, but what with air travel and all that, you can't exactly pinpoint a regional accent anymore.
In every U.S. presidential election between 1976 and 2004, the Republican nominee for president or for vice president was either a Dole or a Bush.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Agreed. In coastal northern California (and I'm thinking in good sections of souther California too, but not sure), there's a pretty concise set of vowel mergers regarding specific following nasals, so there's (at least among locals) virtually no free variation like (according to this thread) in other USA dialects. The almost entirely universal mergers (among speakers and among words) that come to mind:Drydic Guy wrote:Yes, yes you can. Most people really don't move all that far from where they grew up, generally.Bedelato wrote:Some of you mentioned California dialects. I'll look into that, but what with air travel and all that, you can't exactly pinpoint a regional accent anymore.
-pen-pin which is pretty common elsewhere too - I E > I* /_n (exception for certain Bay Area idiolects)
-lennon-lenin which is a little more rare - I @ > I* /_n (near universal)
-{ tensing isn't just for the NCVS anymore - eI E*** { > e** /_N (near universal)
-I tensing - I i > i /_N
Supposedly the second to last one (the tensing of /{/) is part of a larger California shift where [{~], that is /{/ before a nasal, is rising compared to [{], that is everywhere else, which is being backed towards [a]. I don't hear this in either my idiolect or nearby ones, but it might be more common that I think. In either case, there's a lot
TL;DR: The entire vowel system is being reorganized in California, and it's progressed the furthest in nasal and rhotic environments.
*Exact quality is a little dicey. I think it's something around I_- in that it's a lot more central and back than but not quite [I\] or [1].
**The rising diphthongs /eI oU/ are getting a lot closer to [e: o:] in certain contexts and I think this might be one of them.
***I can't think of any instances of [EN] IMD which seems suspicious since there's also no [{N] at all, does any one have [EN] anywhere for comparison?
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I can't think of any words in English with /ɛŋ/ apart from the name of the letter ŋ (eng), which I'm not sure counts for some reason. The name of the language itself, after all, exhibits [ɛŋ] → [ɪŋ].schwhatever wrote:***I can't think of any instances of [EN] IMD which seems suspicious since there's also no [{N] at all, does any one have [EN] anywhere for comparison?
As for /eɪŋ/, again I can think of a sole example, which is the Scottish surname Laing. Somehow I doubt you know that word, though, so I'm inclined to think you don't necessarily have that change, but then [æŋ] → [eŋ] would subsume it whether or not you do, I reckon.
I don't think /ɛŋ/ is necessarily disallowed by the language, it's just that there are precious few examples.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
What about the word "penguin"? I've heard it pronounced with everything from [E] to , the latter being the most common around here.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
In my dialect at least, the word penguin and the name Genghis Khan, along with many Chinese names with -eng in them, have present-day /ɜŋ/ (historical /ɛŋ/), but all other cases of historical /æŋ/ and /ɛŋ/ I can think of have been merged with historical /eɪ̯ŋ/ to present-day /eŋ/; this also ignores the assimilation of present-day /ɜn/ (historical /ɛn/) to [ɜ̃(ː)ŋ]. (Present-day phonemes ignore nasalization and length here.)Zoris wrote:What about the word "penguin"? I've heard it pronounced with everything from [E] to [i], the latter being the most common around here.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Zoris wrote:What about the word "penguin"? I've heard it pronounced with everything from [E] to , the latter being the most common around here.
Ah good, I'm just shit at examples. Yeah, [ɛŋ] in penguin... if you pronounce it with a higher vowel you sound American.... unless you're talking about Pingu.