The proper way to mangle <bourgeois> in English

Aurora Rossa · Post by **Aurora Rossa** » Mon May 16, 2011 11:28 pm

vampyre_smiles wrote:I try not to use it. It's too mainstream. /hipster-ism

I do, although mostly in its technical sense as a term of economic and sociological jargon. Calling something "bourgeois" because you find it banal is rather trite, but it does make sense to say "Marxian theory describes a class conflict between the bourgeoisie and proletariat" or something.

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:22 am

I don't even arrive at the social implications of that word; I am obstructed in even getting that far in speaking it by the more immediate fact that it sounds incredibly fucking ridiculous. Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear? Pix or it didn't happen. Pronouncing such a sequence of phones is right up there with standing in front of a crowd with diapers on your head screaming "I did a doodie in my poodie!" in industrial-grade horror.

linguoboy · Post by **linguoboy** » Tue May 17, 2011 7:57 am

Radius Solis wrote:Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear?

I do all the time when describing my petit-bourgeois background.

Salmoneus · Post by **Salmoneus** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:14 am

Radius Solis wrote:I don't even arrive at the social implications of that word; I am obstructed in even getting that far in speaking it by the more immediate fact that it sounds incredibly fucking ridiculous. Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear?

Of course. Sometimes several times a day. In fact at the weekend I had some friends round, so may have used the word a dozen or so times an hour. It's because I'm bourgeois. Indeed, I don't know how one would cope with having a friend who never used the word - would people not rapidly suspect him to be an ignoramus, or a plebeian?

Lyhoko Leaci · Post by **Lyhoko Leaci** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:26 am

The only time I remember hearing the word used recently is in class, and the class in question was about the history of Russia and the Soviet Union.

finlay · Post by **finlay** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:08 am

linguoboy wrote:
Radius Solis wrote:Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear?
I do all the time when describing my petit-bourgeois background.

My sister's a kind of marxist/socialist that keeps using the word all the time, particularly as an insult. She also has several -isms lined up for anyone who disagrees with her even slightly. And if you call her out on it she'll claim it wasn't intended to be an insult, it's just fact, and that you shouldn't take that disdainful tone she uses in such a negative way.

Mind you, it bothers me more that she pronounces it "petty"-bourgeois.

linguoboy · Post by **linguoboy** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:14 am

finlay wrote:Mind you, it bothers me more that she pronounces it "petty"-bourgeois.

That's what I say, too. Saying [pti]-bourgeois is simply un peu de trop, wouldn't you agree?

finlay · Post by **finlay** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:36 am

Non, pas du tout! Mais c'est une affectation pour moi...

linguoboy · Post by **linguoboy** » Tue May 17, 2011 12:06 pm

Actually, given that my mom's family made their money supplying construction materials, perhaps I should call them "putty-bourgeois".

linguofreak · Post by **linguofreak** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:31 pm

Shm Jay wrote:Heavens, I can tell most of you people are not /burʒwa/ because of the downright proletarian, if not lumpenproletarian, pronunciations you have of the word

Eh... I think that in the English speaking world nowadays the bourgeoisie and the proletariat have somewhat merged.

Pthagnar · Post by **Pthagnar** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:38 pm

Radius Solis wrote:I don't even arrive at the social implications of that word; I am obstructed in even getting that far in speaking it by the more immediate fact that it sounds incredibly fucking ridiculous. Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear? Pix or it didn't happen. Pronouncing such a sequence of phones is right up there with standing in front of a crowd with diapers on your head screaming "I did a doodie in my poodie!" in industrial-grade horror.

Fig. 1 -- The "liberal cringe", indoctrinated into potential revolutionary elements from a young age, is a common instrument used to propagate false class consciousness

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:31 pm

Pthug wrote:
Radius Solis wrote:I don't even arrive at the social implications of that word; I am obstructed in even getting that far in speaking it by the more immediate fact that it sounds incredibly fucking ridiculous. Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear? Pix or it didn't happen. Pronouncing such a sequence of phones is right up there with standing in front of a crowd with diapers on your head screaming "I did a doodie in my poodie!" in industrial-grade horror.
Fig. 1 -- The "liberal cringe", indoctrinated into potential revolutionary elements from a young age, is a common instrument used to propagate false class consciousness

Translation "ooh look at me I know better than you what you are thinking". But I challenge you to explain, if you are correct, why the problem exists only in speech; I don't have any issue using "bourgeois" in writing, where it's a perfectly good word in the rare event I find a reason to use it.

Thomas Winwood · Post by **Thomas Winwood** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:38 pm

b{FORCE}ʒw{BATH}

With initial {NURSE}, {FOOT} or {GOOSE} it sounds like some sort of medical condition.

Pthagnar · Post by **Pthagnar** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:33 pm

Radius Solis wrote:Translation "ooh look at me I know better than you what you are thinking". But I challenge you to explain, if you are correct, why the problem exists only in speech; I don't have any issue using "bourgeois" in writing, where it's a perfectly good word in the rare event I find a reason to use it.

Because marxism in America has been pushed into a safe little retirement home -- academic writing and lecturing -- where nonironic use of the term is kept under the watchful eyes of the US Govt and Big Business. If it is written, and published as the academic system enfor..courages, then it can be surveilled and kept among the hyperliterate who are too bourgeois to really do anything about it and who can be trusted to use the concept """ironically""" in informal speech and writing. But if, instead, communist cant is encouraged to spread *verbally*, then not only does it become all the more virulent, but it can cease to become acrolectal [as salmoneus observes] and descend back into the basilect. Which would be no fun at all unless you love collective farms and queuing.

TaylorS · Post by **TaylorS** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:39 pm

Radius Solis wrote:I don't even arrive at the social implications of that word; I am obstructed in even getting that far in speaking it by the more immediate fact that it sounds incredibly fucking ridiculous. Do anglophones seriously use that word, in cold blood, where anyone else can hear? Pix or it didn't happen. Pronouncing such a sequence of phones is right up there with standing in front of a crowd with diapers on your head screaming "I did a doodie in my poodie!" in industrial-grade horror.

The only people who use the word with any regularity here are a handful of local Trotskyite knumbskulls on campus that think other socialists like myself are "fake-leftist tools of the Bourgiousie".

Nortaneous · Post by **Nortaneous** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:21 am

But is Marxism even relevant in Europe anymore? As far as I've seen, the riots have all been arranged by fairly typical anti-austerity leftist euro-DailyKos types who don't really show any signs of Marxism besides maybe a shared predilection for overly bombastic rhetoric.

finlay · Post by **finlay** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:20 am

Part of me would love to just put you in a room with my sister to see how long it would take you to explode at each other in indignance. The other part is just thinking "No, no, no!!! That's a terrible idea!!!" because I can't stand to be around her for very long when she starts talking about Marxism.

I really don't know enough about it to answer your question properly, though. I just think it'd be funny if you said it to her face.

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:36 pm

[b@g:r\=wejst]

tezcatlip0ca · Post by **tezcatlip0ca** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:37 pm

Drydic Guy wrote:[b@g:r\=wejst]

What is "buggerwaist" supposed to mean?

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:39 pm

Post subject: Re: The proper way to mangle <bourgeois> in English

tezcatlip0ca · Post by **tezcatlip0ca** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:09 am

That doesn't even sound like "bourgeois"...

Bristel · Post by **Bristel** » Sat May 21, 2011 3:18 am

Aiďos wrote:That doesn't even sound like "bourgeois"...

Exactly! It's properly mangled...

I pronounce it [bʊrˈʒwɑ], as the LORD intended.

tezcatlip0ca · Post by **tezcatlip0ca** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:57 pm

Same here, but initial stressed.

bulbaquil · Post by **bulbaquil** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:33 pm

The only time I seriously use the word <bourgeois> in conversation, though, is when I am talking about the French Revolution.

I do not talk about the French Revolution much.