What is "generic" English to a Japanese person?

[Maulrus]

For a English-speaker to make "generic" Japanese, all he has to do is put together a bunch of CV syllables (e.g. "hodamashu"; it is likely gibberish, but it would instantly be identified as Japanese-sounding). This is a simple matter thanks to Japanese's relatively strict phonotactic constraints. However, English syllable structure has a lot more variation. How would a Japanese person make instantly identifiable English-sounding gibberish?

[Doch]

pera pera pera

[Chargone]

lots of words with t or d in the middle of them and plenty of s's at the begining and end of words (at least one word in at least every third sentence should probably end in an s if you think about it. wow, amazing how i managed to avoid it here), if you're writing it. also superfluous 'e' everywhere.
curse you above paragraph with your ability to compleatly thwart the points i was trying to make with you! curse you i say!

speaking, that's still true i guess, 'cept the bit about the 'e', but with added bonus schwas for ~half the vowels. also, non-binary stress

oh, consonant clusters are your friend.

lots of mono- or duo-sylabic words with the ocasional 5+ syllable monstrosity thrown in for seasoning. lack of direct corolation between character/sound count and sylable count in any given word.

not sure how absolutely true this is, but i think it'd help?

[Bob Johnson]

<th>. Everywhere.

[Hakaku]

It's pretty simple, really: they just switch scripts. The Katakana syllabary is mainly used to denote words of foreign origin, and seeing how English is the most prominent source language for loan words, anything that isn't recognized as Japanese slang will be associated with English. In terms of actually creating English-sounding gibberish, native Japanese speakers will emphasize r's, accentuate the article 'the' before words (pronounced more akin to [dza], written za), and will attempt to write out consonant clusters, especially if using the latin script. Japanese's phonology and structure will generally influence the output though, so clusters and trailing consonants will be separated by the vowel /u/ (or sometimes /o/) in pronunciation or native scripts, English /T/ becomes /s/, /D/ becomes /z/, and rhotic vowels will be marked by long vowels instead.

There was a video on youtube with a Japanese kid imitating what he thought English sounded like, can't find the link though. Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLZhclvLbfI

But some examples of easily identifiable foreign gibberish would be things like this:
テゥ・トゥ・ティ (non-native clusters)
ファンタク (using fa or other words exploiting allophony)
ラルド (using lots of r's, especially word-initially)
ハップ (short words marked by final geminated plosive, mimicking English's monosyllabicity)

More realistically, however, they have knack for borrowing actual English words and morphemes and fusing them together to form things that would otherwise seem nonsensical to us. In other words, they're perfectly happy inventing words from bits and pieces of actual English.

[Bedelato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLZhclvLbfI

WUT ????
That sounded nothing like English.

More realistically, however, they have knack for borrowing actual English words and morphemes and fusing them together to form things that would otherwise seem nonsensical to us. In other words, they're perfectly happy inventing words from bits and pieces of actual English.

Any examples?

EDIT: Fixed BBCode

[Hakaku]

Well, it isn't so much gibberish as an actual word-formation phenomenon. But some examples of Japanese-English (aka "Japlish" or Wasei-eigo) would be:

Compound innovations:
リストアップ risutoappu v. "To make a list" n. "Listing" (< list up)
セクハラ sekuhara n. "Sexual harassment"
トレパン torepan n. "Training pants"
シャーベットトヌ shaabettotonu n. "The colour of sherbet" (< sherbet tone)
ハーフパンツ haafupantsu n. "Shorts" (< half pants)
ワイドショー waidoshoo n. "Talk show" or "Variety show" (< wide show)
ツーテール tsuuteeru n. "Pigtails" (< two tail)
コアリズム koarizumu n. "Weight-loss exercise" (< core rhythm)
ボディコン bodikon n. "Flattering clothing" (< body concious)

Word-clipping:
ネル neru n. "Flannel"
インポ inpo n. "Impotent person", "Impotency"

Some semantic shifts:
マンション manshon n. "Appartment house" (< mansion)
レッカー rekkaa n. "Tow truck" (< wrecker)
ストーブ sutoobu n. "Heater" (< stove)
カンニング kanningu n. "Cheating" (< cunning)

Reanalysis:
アウテリア auteria "Exterior" (< out + interior)

Other:
ダムライズひと damuraizu hito n. "British or American sailors" (< Damn-your-eyes + Japanese word for people) [Yokohama]

More examples: Jisho.org, sci.lang.japan

You can find most if not all of these in modern Japanese dictionaries, though it's certainly not an exhaustive list. Some of them aren't so bad, since you can sort of see the connection. But in the grand scheme of things, most coinages are locally innovative as opposed to reflecting actual English usage, and tend to follow Japanese's phonological rules. As words of English provenance are current and popular, people and especially companies are keen on borrowing, adapting, and creating all sorts of words to reach out to the current and younger generation.

[Maulrus]

Wow, all of that is just fascinating. It's interesting in itself to see how they think of English, but the best part is that video; I feel like I can really hear the little tinges of English that comprise his internal picture of the whole language, even though it still sound distinctly Japanese. As to the poster who said it sounds nothing like English, I have to imagine that when we make our fake Japanese (which, to us, sounds invariably like the language), it would sound to them just as completely nonsensical and (mainly) English-influenced.

And as far as the loanwords, that's very interesting as well. I find it fascinating how clear it is that they're not just borrowing words, as even without the phonological changes it would be hard for me to trace some of those words etymologically (the last one in particular made my jaw drop). Why do you think it is that English is to go-to for "cool" loanwords?

[hwhatting]

Why do you think it is that English is to go-to for "cool" loanwords?

Because English-language pop culture rules the world? You have similar phenomena in other languages - e.g., both French and English have "English" words that don't exist either in American or in British English or have a different meaning in those standards (French shampooing "shampoo", German Smoking "tuxedo", Handy "mobile phone" etc.).

[King of My Own Niche]

, German Smoking "tuxedo"

Is that derived from smoking jacket?

[Qwynegold]

German Smoking "tuxedo"

Huh, I didn't even know that word wasn't used in English. We have it in Swedish too.

[Travis B.]

, German Smoking "tuxedo"

Is that derived from smoking jacket?

IIRC yes.

[finlay]

, German Smoking "tuxedo"

Is that derived from smoking jacket?

you don't say

[Terra]

(French shampooing "shampoo", German Smoking "tuxedo", Handy "mobile phone" etc.).

My favorite is "Bodybag". In German, it's a harmless alternative for "Rucksack" (or does it mean something a little different?), but in English...

More realistically, however, they have knack for borrowing actual English words and morphemes and fusing them together to form things that would otherwise seem nonsensical to us. In other words, they're perfectly happy inventing words from bits and pieces of actual English.

Skinship.

セクハラ sekuhara n. "Sexual harassment"
トレパン torepan n. "Training pants"

German likes to shorten phrases into words this way too. English and French seem to opt for acronyms instead. Does WALS have a category on this?

[finlay]

Handy "mobile phone" etc.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WIscxut_ak
(i know you actually pronounce it [hɛndi], so it slightly bothers me, but you must watch this...)

[MisterBernie]

Tangent:

German likes to shorten phrases into words this way too. English and French seem to opt for acronyms instead. Does WALS have a category on this?

...we do? Somehow, apart from Azubi (trainee, from Auszubildender), I can mostly think of some common acronyms (KFZ, PKW, LKW, AKW) or clippings (Auto < Automobil, Laster < Lastwagen).
...
wtf is my brain full of motor vehicles right now o_O

[finlay]

German likes to shorten phrases into words this way too. English and French seem to opt for acronyms instead. Does WALS have a category on this?

.... this is like the most common way of shortening words in French... http://french.about.com/library/writing/bl-apocopes.htm

[hwhatting]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WIscxut_ak
(i know you actually pronounce it [hɛndi], so it slightly bothers me, but you must watch this...)

Funny indeed.

[King of My Own Niche]

[quote="finlay"\you don't say[/quote]

Hey man, no need to snark :P

[Terra]

German likes to shorten phrases into words this way too. English and French seem to opt for acronyms instead. Does WALS have a category on this?

.... this is like the most common way of shortening words in French... http://french.about.com/library/writing/bl-apocopes.htm

No. All of those are simply clippings of a *single* word. I'm talking about something like where "Staatssicherheit" gets turned into "Stasi", or "Hilfswilliger" into "Hiwi".

[Astraios]

No. All of those are simply clippings of a *single* word. I'm talking about something like where "Staatssicherheit" gets turned into "Stasi", or "Hilfswilliger" into "Hiwi".

Like "sci-fi"?

[Bedelato]

Well, it isn't so much gibberish as an actual word-formation phenomenon. But some examples of Japanese-English (aka "Japlish" or Wasei-eigo) would be:

Compound innovations:
リストアップ risutoappu v. "To make a list" n. "Listing" (< list up)
セクハラ sekuhara n. "Sexual harassment"
トレパン torepan n. "Training pants"
シャーベットトヌ shaabettotonu n. "The colour of sherbet" (< sherbet tone)
ハーフパンツ haafupantsu n. "Shorts" (< half pants)
ワイドショー waidoshoo n. "Talk show" or "Variety show" (< wide show)
ツーテール tsuuteeru n. "Pigtails" (< two tail)
コアリズム koarizumu n. "Weight-loss exercise" (< core rhythm)
ボディコン bodikon n. "Flattering clothing" (< body concious)

Word-clipping:
ネル neru n. "Flannel"
インポ inpo n. "Impotent person", "Impotency"

Some semantic shifts:
マンション manshon n. "Appartment house" (< mansion)
レッカー rekkaa n. "Tow truck" (< wrecker)
ストーブ sutoobu n. "Heater" (< stove)
カンニング kanningu n. "Cheating" (< cunning)

Reanalysis:
アウテリア auteria "Exterior" (< out + interior)

Other:
ダムライズひと damuraizu hito n. "British or American sailors" (< Damn-your-eyes + Japanese word for people) [Yokohama]

More examples: Jisho.org, sci.lang.japan

You can find most if not all of these in modern Japanese dictionaries, though it's certainly not an exhaustive list. Some of them aren't so bad, since you can sort of see the connection. But in the grand scheme of things, most coinages are locally innovative as opposed to reflecting actual English usage, and tend to follow Japanese's phonological rules. As words of English provenance are current and popular, people and especially companies are keen on borrowing, adapting, and creating all sorts of words to reach out to the current and younger generation.

Yeah, and then we native English speakers are exposed to those foreign coinages that they made from English lexical resources, and they sound really really weird. "Flannel" > "nel" > /neru/ sounds strange to native speakers of (American) English, where "flannel" > *"flan" would be a far more likely process, if my intuition as a native speaker tells me anything.

[Drydic]

Yeah, and then we native English speakers are exposed to those foreign coinages that they made from English lexical resources, and they sound really really weird. "Flannel" > "nel" > /neru/ sounds strange to native speakers of (American) English, where "flannel" > *"flan" would be a far more likely process, if my intuition as a native speaker tells me anything.

And that means what

[Terra]

No. All of those are simply clippings of a *single* word. I'm talking about something like where "Staatssicherheit" gets turned into "Stasi", or "Hilfswilliger" into "Hiwi".

Like "sci-fi"?

Yes. Most often English will use an acronym though.

[Chargone]

No. All of those are simply clippings of a *single* word. I'm talking about something like where "Staatssicherheit" gets turned into "Stasi", or "Hilfswilliger" into "Hiwi".

Like "sci-fi"?

Yes. Most often English will use an acronym though.

American english anyway. (and it's not at all uncommon for american 'acronyms' to include significant chunks of some of the words to ensure there are enough vowels to make it pronounceable)
what i can recall of how people speak around here would incidcate that there's a preference for reducing things to descriptors instead. "the green party of New Zealand" is always 'the Greens', as an example.

course i'm both ill and sleep deprived at the moment, so it could well be that i'm just not remembering the relevant examples, but the above does happen a lot. reduce the long name to the minimum needed to distinguish it from anything else relevant, usually resulting in an adjective or a number, then turn it into a noun.