Whoops. "Apple-loagies"Bob Johnson wrote:Yes, Japanese, as mentioned above:Bryan wrote:DO ANY LANGUAGES do something like "eat" (vb) and "eat thing" (n)?
食べ物 or 食事 <tabemono> or <shokuji> both "eating thing"
食べる <taberu> "eat"
There's also 食う <kuu> "eat (roughly)" and ご飯 <gohan> "honorable rice; meal" but not terribly relevant
Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
People have mentioned German already, so I'll just do Mandarin:Bryan wrote:DO ANY LANGUAGES do something like "eat" (vb) and "eat thing" (n)?
'eat' is most commonly 吃 chi1 (你吃了吗? ni3 chi1 le ma? 'have you eaten?')
食 shi2 can also mean 'eat,' but more commonly occurs in compounds to indicate food items: 主食 zhu3 shi2 'staple food'
饭 fan4 technically means "food," but I think it refers more to "meal," AND it also means "rice" (cf. 米饭 mi3 fan4, 'cooked rice'). It is also the character used in the compounds meaning 'breakfast' 早饭 (zao3 fan4, 'early food'), 'lunch' 午饭 (wu3 fan4, 'noon food'), and 'dinner' 晚饭 (wan3 fan4 'late food').
餐 can1 also means "food," and in the case of the meal terms as actually equivalent to 饭 (早餐,午餐,晚餐). It is also used in the compound meaning 'cafeteria' (餐厅 can1 ting1 'food room'), as well as 'fast food' (快餐 kuai4 can1 'fast food)
Different areas of China also have the term 小吃 xiao3 chi1 ('little eat') which can have a broad range of meanings, IIRC. The one that I learned in Chinese classes was "snack" or those small things you get at street vendor carts, stuff like that.
My dictionary also lists 吃食 (chi1 shi2) as a "spoken" word for "food"...obviously combining both characters for 'eat.' But it also lists 'to feed' as a definition, so I'm not sure if it necessarily refers to animal food? Don't quote me on this one, better to wait for a native speaker's judgment.
The closest translation to 'eat thing' I can think of is 吃的东西 (chi1 de dong1 xi1 'eat REL thing), but that means something more along the lines of "something to eat" or like "the thing you eat/ate..." (你吃的东西。。。ni3 chi1 de dong1 xi1)...
Actually wait, my dictionary (actually, it's http://www.nciku.com) also lists 食物 (shi2 wu4 'eat thing') as a word for 'food'...but I haven't learned that, so I'm not sure how common it is.
Leave it to the Chinese to have the most complicated system of words for things dealing with food and eating
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
食 shí can mean food too, in compounds, and in Literary Chinese. 食物 shíwù is definitely common for "food".
Last edited by Ser on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
To clarify, "tabe" is the native reading of 食, and "shoku" the Han (Chinese) reading.Bob Johnson wrote:Yes, Japanese, as mentioned above:Bryan wrote:DO ANY LANGUAGES do something like "eat" (vb) and "eat thing" (n)?
食べ物 or 食事 <tabemono> or <shokuji> both "eating thing"
食べる <taberu> "eat"
There's also 食う <kuu> "eat (roughly)" and ご飯 <gohan> "honorable rice; meal" but not terribly relevant
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
To complement Japanese, here's a few other Japonic variants:
Kagoshima:
く ku or たもっ tamoq "eat"
きもん kimon "food"
Amami:
かむり kˣamuri "eat"
かみむん kˣamimun or ぼいむん boïmun "food"
Okinawan:
くゎいん kwain or かむん kamun "eat"
くぇーむん kweemun "food"
Miyako:
ふぉー foo "eat"
ふぉーむぬ foomunu "food"
As you can note, 物 (mono, mon, mun, munu) "thing" is a pretty productive term, being used in all varieties despite the different root verbs. You can easily form other words this way by simply changing the verb (e.g. standard: nomu "(to) drink" > nomimono "drink, beverage").
Cree uses a similar word formation process, using -win for nominalization:
mîciw ᒦᒋᐤ "(he/she) eats"
mîciwin ᒦᒋᐃᐧᐣ "food"
Kagoshima:
く ku or たもっ tamoq "eat"
きもん kimon "food"
Amami:
かむり kˣamuri "eat"
かみむん kˣamimun or ぼいむん boïmun "food"
Okinawan:
くゎいん kwain or かむん kamun "eat"
くぇーむん kweemun "food"
Miyako:
ふぉー foo "eat"
ふぉーむぬ foomunu "food"
As you can note, 物 (mono, mon, mun, munu) "thing" is a pretty productive term, being used in all varieties despite the different root verbs. You can easily form other words this way by simply changing the verb (e.g. standard: nomu "(to) drink" > nomimono "drink, beverage").
Cree uses a similar word formation process, using -win for nominalization:
mîciw ᒦᒋᐤ "(he/she) eats"
mîciwin ᒦᒋᐃᐧᐣ "food"
Chances are it's Ryukyuan (Resources).
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Hi Hakaku,
Is -win a bound morpheme?
Is -win a bound morpheme?
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
In Polish it's also possible that a verb and a noun derive from the same stem although there's no pair like "rain" and "to rain". But:
eat - jeść
food - jedzenie
However, as I'm thinking of it, the ending is a classical example of a gerund ending, i.e. robić (to do) - robienie (doing), śpiewać (to sing) - śpiewanie (singing). Nonetheless "jedzenie" doesn't have to describe the act of eating, it may also be translated as "food" like I wrote, it depends where it's used.
Więzień odmawia przyjmowania jedzenia. - The prisoner refuses to take food.
Więzień odmawia jedzenia. - The prisoner refuses to eat.
Something else came to my mind concerning "raining" and other types of precipitation. "Ulewa" means "downpour of rain" and it comes from the same stem as the verb "lać" of which one of the meanings is "to pour", it is then used exclusively in 3SG - "leje". The similarity is obvious.
eat - jeść
food - jedzenie
However, as I'm thinking of it, the ending is a classical example of a gerund ending, i.e. robić (to do) - robienie (doing), śpiewać (to sing) - śpiewanie (singing). Nonetheless "jedzenie" doesn't have to describe the act of eating, it may also be translated as "food" like I wrote, it depends where it's used.
Więzień odmawia przyjmowania jedzenia. - The prisoner refuses to take food.
Więzień odmawia jedzenia. - The prisoner refuses to eat.
Something else came to my mind concerning "raining" and other types of precipitation. "Ulewa" means "downpour of rain" and it comes from the same stem as the verb "lać" of which one of the meanings is "to pour", it is then used exclusively in 3SG - "leje". The similarity is obvious.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
I don't know that it's even true for the majority of Indo-European languages. Counterexamples have already been given for Slavic. Welsh does have the verb glawio, derived from glaw "rain", but IME it's seldom used (and may be a recent calque). The usual expression is bwrw glaw "casting rain". (Cf. bwrw eira "snowing", bwrw cenllysg/cesair "hailing", etc.) It's the same in Irish: Theoretically, there is a verb báistigh, but it has no finite forms; it only occurs as a verbal-noun (i.e. An raibh sé ag báisteach? "Was it raining?"). The usual expression combines this with the verb cuir "throw", e.g. Bíonn sé ag cur báistí/fearthainne i gcónaí "It's always throwing rain". Similarly for Albanian (po bie shi "PROG fall rain"), Persian (barun miyad "rain comes"), Punjabi (varkhā ho rahi hai lit. "rain be staying is"), etc.Bryan wrote:So far as I can tell, the overwhelming majority of languages seem to use the same root for both verb and noun, if not the actual same word.
Furthermore, Korean works the same as Japanese: 비가 왔다 /pi ka oass.ta/ "rain came" = "it rained". We've seen nominal expressions from Chinese and Vietnamese as well. On the other hand, Indonesian hujan functions as both noun and verb. Osage also lacks a strict morphological distinction between the two categories. Níižu (from níi "water") can become a predicate simply with the addition of a progressive marker, i.e. níižu akxai "it is raining".
Clearly, many languages have a verb for "rain", but it is by no means obvious to me that a "majority" do, much less an "overwhelming" one. I would think the same applies to other case (like "snow" or "eat") as well.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Hi Linguoboy, I was referring to examples such as a drink/eat/hit/kick etc.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
The Bulgarian word for rain is дъжд, the word for to rain is вали, it's also used for to snow, you can specify what is falling from the sky by saying вали дъжд/град/сняг (rain/hail/snow) when it's not too obvious. In Greek you have βρέχει and βροχή for rain, and for snow χιονίζει (v) χιόνι (n).
The verb for eat is ям/яда, the words for food are ядене, храна, in Greek you have τρώ(γ)ω (v) and for food τροφή, φαγητό, note that the perfective form of the verb τρώ(γ)ω is φάω.
The verb for eat is ям/яда, the words for food are ядене, храна, in Greek you have τρώ(γ)ω (v) and for food τροφή, φαγητό, note that the perfective form of the verb τρώ(γ)ω is φάω.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Yeah, Cree is polysynthetic/fusional, so pretty much everything is bound. The suffix -win- tends to create more abstracted concepts, while -kan- tends to form physical objects (such as tools and instruments), and -(i)hkân helps form new nouns from other nouns (e.g. (my) eyes > (my) glasses). There's some others too, but I'm not familiar with all of them.Bryan wrote:Hi Hakaku,
Is -win a bound morpheme?
Chances are it's Ryukyuan (Resources).
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
In Georgian, "rain (n)" is წვიმა c̣vima; "it rains" is წვიმს c̣vims. The verb never takes any arguments. I suppose the noun is actually the verb's masdar.
As for eating, there's ჭამს č̣ams "s/he eats it" and საჭმელი sač̣meli "food". სა—ელი forms the future participle. The vowel dropping out of the root is an example of syncope, which is pretty widespread in the language.
As for eating, there's ჭამს č̣ams "s/he eats it" and საჭმელი sač̣meli "food". სა—ელი forms the future participle. The vowel dropping out of the root is an example of syncope, which is pretty widespread in the language.
Last edited by ná'oolkiłí on Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
All of Northern Germanic except for Icelandic use the stem regn- for both. Icelandic has 'regn' for the noun and 'rigna' for the verb.
As a side-note, Faroese, for some reason, has more or less lost the old, Germanic word for 'snow' (in Faroese 'snjógvur') replaced with 'kavi', while all of the others cling on to their respective cognate to the English 'snow'. Not sure whence it comes, but at least 'kaf' is a word for 'sea' in Icelandic ('kafa' means 'to dive' and 'kafari' means 'diver'), so maybe that's related.
As a side-note, Faroese, for some reason, has more or less lost the old, Germanic word for 'snow' (in Faroese 'snjógvur') replaced with 'kavi', while all of the others cling on to their respective cognate to the English 'snow'. Not sure whence it comes, but at least 'kaf' is a word for 'sea' in Icelandic ('kafa' means 'to dive' and 'kafari' means 'diver'), so maybe that's related.
Online dictionary for my conlang Vanga: http://royalrailway.com/tungumaalMiin/Vanga/
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I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
You posted about kavi before, and we discovered it's from the same root as kafa.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Really? I don't remember that. Very well, then. There we go. Again. Apparently.Astraios wrote:You posted about kavi before, and we discovered it's from the same root as kafa.
Online dictionary for my conlang Vanga: http://royalrailway.com/tungumaalMiin/Vanga/
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I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
#undef FEMALE
I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
So is rain and reign a cognate?Skomakar'n wrote:All of Northern Germanic except for Icelandic use the stem regn- for both. Icelandic has 'regn' for the noun and 'rigna' for the verb.
As a side-note, Faroese, for some reason, has more or less lost the old, Germanic word for 'snow' (in Faroese 'snjógvur') replaced with 'kavi', while all of the others cling on to their respective cognate to the English 'snow'. Not sure whence it comes, but at least 'kaf' is a word for 'sea' in Icelandic ('kafa' means 'to dive' and 'kafari' means 'diver'), so maybe that's related.
On another note most Maori words can be both verbs and nouns depending upon what goes in front of it.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Not as far as I know. Pretty sure rich and reign are, though.Turtlehead wrote:So is rain and reign a cognate?
Online dictionary for my conlang Vanga: http://royalrailway.com/tungumaalMiin/Vanga/
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I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
#undef FEMALE
I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Hi turtlehead,
Yeah, I'm actually reading up on Maori grammar as it seems to share a lot with what I am trying to do.
Yeah, I'm actually reading up on Maori grammar as it seems to share a lot with what I am trying to do.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
E hia a te reo tau? (Sorry no Macrons)Bryan wrote:Hi turtlehead,
Yeah, I'm actually reading up on Maori grammar as it seems to share a lot with what I am trying to do.
Probably most polynesian languages would share the same structures.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Turtlehead wrote:E hia a te reo tau? (Sorry no Macrons)Bryan wrote:Hi turtlehead,
Yeah, I'm actually reading up on Maori grammar as it seems to share a lot with what I am trying to do.
Probably most polynesian languages would share the same structures.
??"How many the language you"???
= How many languages do you speak???????
As I say, "looking into", not "learning". Altho naturally you just sort of end up remembering a few bits and pieces. Random words, mostly. wahine, nga tamariki, tangata, whaka, iwi, kiau etc.
Out of interest, are you of Maori ancestry?
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
In Turkish 'rain' is yağmur, and there is a verb yağmak which means to fall. "It's raining" would be Yağıyor, 'it's falling' with the rain being implied by context. This same verb can also be used for other types of precipitation, snow, sleet, insects, etc.
Similarly, 'food' and 'to eat' are both yemek, and 'to drink' and 'a beverage' are içmek and içecek, respectively.
Similarly, 'food' and 'to eat' are both yemek, and 'to drink' and 'a beverage' are içmek and içecek, respectively.
Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Hi Theta,
What about other English n-vb pairs; how do they translate in Turkish?
kick
paint
talk
etc
What about other English n-vb pairs; how do they translate in Turkish?
kick
paint
talk
etc
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
Hey Bryan!
kick/a kick - tekmelemek/tekme
paint/paint (substance) - boyamak/boya
talk/a chat - konuşmak/konuşma
school/to study - okul/okumak
There are quite a few ways to derive nouns from verbs or vice versa, so it's not really constant the way that they're made.
kick/a kick - tekmelemek/tekme
paint/paint (substance) - boyamak/boya
talk/a chat - konuşmak/konuşma
school/to study - okul/okumak
There are quite a few ways to derive nouns from verbs or vice versa, so it's not really constant the way that they're made.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
That could have been Hungarian!Theta wrote:kick/a kick - tekmelemek/tekme
Online dictionary for my conlang Vanga: http://royalrailway.com/tungumaalMiin/Vanga/
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I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
#undef FEMALE
I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688
Of an Ernst'ian one.
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Re: Rain (n) Rain (vb) ~ Different Languages...?
~ LOL - I agree! ~Skomakar'n wrote:That could have been Hungarian!Theta wrote:kick/a kick - tekmelemek/tekme
In Greek it's:
τρώω/τρέφω ['tɾo.o/'tɾe.fo] - (to) eat/(to) feed [v]
τροφή/φαγητό [tɾo.'fi/fa.ʝi.'to] - food [n]
(ο)μιλώ [(o).mi.'lo] - (to) talk/(to) chat [v]
ομιλία - [o.mi.'li.a] - speech/talk [n]
βρέχει ['vɾe.çi] - (to) rain [v]
βροχή [vɾo.'çi] - rain [n]
χιονίζει - [ço.'ni.zi] - (to) snow [v]
χιόνι ['ço.ni] - snow [n]