Sometimes-Crossed Letters

[Izambri]

For the record.

[Skomakar'n]

I don't see any G or Q. How the fuck do you cross those?

Through the tail (I give ‹G› a tail by extending the last stroke).

[TomHChappell]

I can't scan, but:
I cross 7.
I put a left serif at the top of 1 to distinguish them from uppercase I and lowercase l.
I put serifs on both sides of tops and bottoms of uppercase I, so it won't get confused with lowercase l.
I cross Z and z to keep them unconfused with 2.
I slash zero 0 and write it very roundly to distinguish it from O, which I write squarely. This means I have to be careful to make D not look like O.

[Lyhoko Leaci]

I:
do not cross 7
do not normally distinguish lower case l and 1, but sometimes add a loop at the bottom of lowercase l if distinguishing is necessary
do put serifs on both sides of tops and bottoms of uppercase I, so it won't get confused with lowercase l.
do not cross Z and z. Crossed z's annoy me for some reason.
sometimes add a loop on the bottom left of 2 to distinguish it from z/Z, but only if necessary.
do not slash zero 0 and may or may not distinguish it from O. Though O may be wider than 0.
do not cross lower case q.
do use an open 4.
do use <ɑ> instead of <a>.

[Magb]

I...
- Always cross q.
- Cross 7 after the fact if I find that it looks too much like a 1.
- Usually put a serif at the top of 1.
- Sometimes put serifs on I ("eye").
- Don't think I ever cross Z/z, although I'm aware of the practice.
- Don't distinguish O and 0 at all.
- Always use an open 4.
- Always use the back rounded rather than the front rounded character for <a>.

I wasn't aware of the practice with the super-long extender on the 1. I find it upsetting.

[Thry]

For the record.

Hey, your handwritting looks quite like mine. Well, mine is worse. I have a <r> and <v> orthographical merger, and my <g>'s look a bit like elongated S's.

I also tend to mix up a lot <a>, <e> and <o>, and also <t> and <f>. No surprise I'm planning to study medicine xD.

[Nortaneous]

I:
do not cross 7
sometimes distinguish <l> and <1>, by writing <1> as it normally appears in fonts
sometimes put serifs on both sides of tops and bottoms of uppercase I, so it won't get confused with lowercase l
do not cross Z and z
distinguish <2> from <z> only by the curvature of the upper bit, when they're distinguished
do not distinguish <0> from <O>
do not cross q
do use an open 4
distinguish <a> from <c> only by the length of the bottom line, especially in faster handwriting

letter pairs that can be hard to distinguish in my handwriting:
1/I/l
2/Z
3/J/NG*
6/G
7/S/T/Y
8/X
12/R
C/L/c/h/(
S/s/(
a/c/e/r
k/lc/le
t/+

* I usually write capital <NG> as <3>, paralleling some yoghish thing for <ng>. It takes effort for me not to think of that as one symbol. I also get occasionally irritated that the standard symbol set has no one-character representation of "of", which in my handwriting is <φ>, even capitalized. ("if" is phi-bar, but I don't think I'd capitalize it as that. "and" can be either <+>, </>, or some weird Arabic-looking elongated delta thing, and there are generally semantic differences between the three, which is why my conlangs generally have two or three words for "and".)

[Lyhoko Leaci]

Now that I have time:


Numbers, alphabet + ß,þ, and ð, as well as variants of some letters, some other things, and a partial fail at cursive. I'm not even going to attempt capital letters for cursive.

[Skomakar'n]

In Swedish we tend to use colons - z:s. In case you were wondering.

X is crossed.

Extra-crossed, then.
Actually the more I think about this one, the more I suspect it was a dream.

I've seen those too, in some fonts. I think that's just for esthetic reasons, tho.

I think it looks sloppy in either language. I either use '‹z›', or I write the entire word. 'Anna is spelled with two ens'. 'Anna stavas med två enn'.

[Ouagadougou]

I'm pretty sure most gothic fonts cross X, but not all cross x.

[Izambri]

Hey, your handwritting looks quite like mine. Well, mine is worse. I have a <r> and <v> orthographical merger, and my <g>'s look a bit like elongated S's.

I also tend to mix up a lot <a>, <e> and <o>, and also <t> and <f>. No surprise I'm planning to study medicine xD.

That's not my best handwriting, to be honest, but the notebook had few pages and the spiral was too big, so my hand didn't have enough space to write comfortably.

Some of my gees, specially when writing fast, also look like elongated esses, with the upper curve so closed that look like circles.

And some of my rounded aes have so little tails that resemble oes.

[Qwynegold]

I don't see any G or Q. How the fuck do you cross those?

Through the tail (I give ‹G› a tail by extending the last stroke).

And Q, you cross its tail too?

I think it looks sloppy in either language. I either use '‹z›', or I write the entire word. 'Anna is spelled with two ens'. 'Anna stavas med två enn'.

How do you write the names of the vowels?

[finlay]

In Swedish we tend to use colons - z:s. In case you were wondering.

X is crossed.

Extra-crossed, then.
Actually the more I think about this one, the more I suspect it was a dream.

I've seen those too, in some fonts. I think that's just for esthetic reasons, tho.

I think it looks sloppy in either language. I either use '‹z›', or I write the entire word. 'Anna is spelled with two ens'. 'Anna stavas med två enn'.

Good luck with Y – I've seen the ways of writing it spelling-wise and it looks terrible either way. ("wye" or something, ugh)

[Jipí]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

[MisterBernie]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

But is it [ɛsˈtsɛt] for you or [ˈʃaːɐ̯fəs ɛs] ?

[finlay]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

Good for you. We don't.

[Jipí]

But is it [ɛsˈtsɛt] for you or [ˈʃaːɐ̯fəs ɛs] ?

The former. And I don't have [a(ː)ɐ̯].

Good for you. We don't.

I expected that reaction from you. Hence:

This is probably another rather pointless post.

If irrelevant/unsolicited information (i.e. "noise") was to be banned from the board, of course I shouldn't even have hit "Submit".

Now I shut up.

[Thry]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

In Portuguese they also have ípsilon for <y>. In Spain, we go for i griega (or is it y griega?) "Greek i/y", but crazy RAE dictators now recommend the name ye ewwww. I'm never gonna use that.

[Io]

Girls, girls, giiiirls, Frankie says relax

[Skomakar'n]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

Same pronunciation as in Icelandic, which has also merged i/í and y/ý into the former. Spelled ‹upsilon› there, for that reason, as ‹u› is /ʏ/.

What I believe to be Standard Swedish pronunciation:

/aː beː seː deː eː ɛf geː hoː iː jiː koː ɛl ɛm ɛn uː peː kʉː ɛr ɛs teː ʉː veː/... uh...

Could it be /ˈdɵbɛlve:/ in Standard Swedish? I can't hear the difference between /ʉ/ and /ɵ/... Pretty sure they're merged into something more like /ʉ/ for me.

/ɛks yː ˈsæːta oː æː øː/? Or are they /ˈsɛːta/ and /ɛː/? I don't think I differentiate between /æ/ and /ɛ/ either, but I can hear the difference perfectly well between those. Just not sure which one is considered Standard here.

I pronounce all of those long /e/'s in there as long /ɛ/'s, and I tend to soften the gee in 'ge'. Like many Swedes, I usually just say 've' rather than 'dubbelve' when speaking of ‹w› when it isn't ambiguous, like when saying the address of a website or an acronym with one in it. For example, I read out 'WWF' as "ve ve eff", and I've never heard anyone say "dubbelve dubbelve eff". Same goes for 'www', being read as "ve ve ve", and that's also all I've ever heard. The full word is just too unwieldy.

I don't see any G or Q. How the fuck do you cross those?

Through the tail (I give ‹G› a tail by extending the last stroke).

And Q, you cross its tail too?

Yeah.

I think it looks sloppy in either language. I either use '‹z›', or I write the entire word. 'Anna is spelled with two ens'. 'Anna stavas med två enn'.

How do you write the names of the vowels?

‹a›, ‹e›, ‹i›, ‹o›, ‹u›, ‹y›, ‹å›, ‹ä› and ‹ö›.

[finlay]

We call it Ypsilon [ˈʏpsilɔn]:

A Be Ce De E Ef Ge Ha I Jott Ka El Em En O Pe Qu Er Es Te U Vau We Ix Ypsilon Zett.
/aː beː tseː deː eː ɛf ɡeː haː iː jɔt kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn oː peː kuː ɛɐ̯ ɛs teː uː fao veː ɪks ˈʏpsilɔn tsɛt/

This is probably another rather pointless post.

Same pronunciation as in Icelandic, which has also merged i/í and y/ý into the former. Spelled ‹upsilon› there, for that reason, as ‹u› is /ʏ/.

What I believe to be Standard Swedish pronunciation:

/aː beː seː deː eː ɛf geː hoː iː jiː koː ɛl ɛm ɛn uː peː kʉː ɛr ɛs teː ʉː veː/... uh...

Could it be /ˈdɵbɛlve:/ in Standard Swedish? I can't hear the difference between /ʉ/ and /ɵ/... Pretty sure they're merged into something more like /ʉ/ for me.

/ɛks yː ˈsæːta oː æː øː/? Or are they /ˈsɛːta/ and /ɛː/? I don't think I differentiate between /æ/ and /ɛ/ either, but I can hear the difference perfectly well between those. Just not sure which one is considered Standard here.

I pronounce all of those long /e/'s in there as long /ɛ/'s, and I tend to soften the gee in 'ge'. Like many Swedes, I usually just say 've' rather than 'dubbelve' when speaking of ‹w› when it isn't ambiguous, like when saying the address of a website or an acronym with one in it. For example, I read out 'WWF' as "ve ve eff", and I've never heard anyone say "dubbelve dubbelve eff". Same goes for 'www', being read as "ve ve ve", and that's also all I've ever heard. The full word is just too unwieldy.

we're stuck with "double-u double-u double-u"... it's no wonder that 99% of advertisers no longer even say it at all, like they used to in the early days of the web when people needed to be told to put it in, and it's also no wonder that George W Bush pronounces it 'dubya'. We deride him for it, but it's a bit unfair, because I know that I personally never say /dʌbəlju/, at least consistently; it's usually more like [dʌbɪjy] or [dʌbjy] where the [y] is /u/.

[Ulrike Meinhof]

we're stuck with "double-u double-u double-u"... it's no wonder that 99% of advertisers no longer even say it at all, like they used to in the early days of the web when people needed to be told to put it in, and it's also no wonder that George W Bush pronounces it 'dubya'. We deride him for it, but it's a bit unfair, because I know that I personally never say /dʌbəlju/, at least consistently; it's usually more like [dʌbɪjy] or [dʌbjy] where the [y] is /u/.

You should introduce /wi/.

[Timmytiptoe]

handschrift.png (53.56 KiB) Viewed 3989 times

This is probably even exaggerating the distinctions between letters in the top rows.

[finlay]

we're stuck with "double-u double-u double-u"... it's no wonder that 99% of advertisers no longer even say it at all, like they used to in the early days of the web when people needed to be told to put it in, and it's also no wonder that George W Bush pronounces it 'dubya'. We deride him for it, but it's a bit unfair, because I know that I personally never say /dʌbəlju/, at least consistently; it's usually more like [dʌbɪjy] or [dʌbjy] where the [y] is /u/.

You should introduce /wi/.

wee is a synonym for 'pee', so i doubt it. (not so much in scotland where it means little, and i don't think it's used in america, so maybe only in england...)

[Nortaneous]

i don't think it's used in america

yes it is. or at least, it's around enough that it'd be recognized as that.