c in Spanish –císimo

[Lyktorna]

My Spanish textbook says “adjectives that end in –n or –r form the absolute [superlative] by adding –císimo/a,” but as usual provides no historical justification. Is this ending, as opposed to the inherited –ísimo (<–issimus), an innovation or what?

The RAE’s entry on –ísimo says that –ble + –ísimo > –bilísimo, and a web search yields other irregular (and apparently lofty) forms like paupérrimo, but alas no explanation for the c in –císimo.

Also - are there any other (colloquial) exceptions to the stem-ísim-gender/number.agreement that the book is glazing over?

[Shm Jay]

Can you give an example? Perhaps the Latin ancestor of the adjective ended in -cissimus because its stem was -ncus or -lcus (or -ncer or -lcer).

[Lyktorna]

Can you give an example? Perhaps the Latin ancestor of the adjective ended in -cissimus because its stem was -ncus or -lcus (or -ncer or -lcer).

The book gives jovencísimo and trabajadorcísimo.

Ah, there we go; Wiktionary: iuven > iuvencus (adj/n) (> juvenco). My knowledge of Latin morphology stops with Wik(t)i's, but I'd guess that the adjective ending for Latin -tor would have to be similar?

[Ser]

My Spanish textbook says “adjectives that end in –n or –r form the absolute [superlative] by adding –císimo/a,” but as usual provides no historical justification. Is this ending, as opposed to the inherited –ísimo (<–issimus), an innovation or what?

According to the Academies the -c- only appears after words ending in -n (with the exception of común and campeón: comunísimo, campeonísimo) and words ending in -or (mayor > mayorcísimo, trabajador > trabajadorcísimo). Otherwise, words ending in -r add it regularly: vulgar > vulgarísimo. (All five examples are theirs.)

Also, the -ísimo forms aren't superlatives (they don't compare a noun phrase against others, unlike Latin adjectives in -issimus), they exaggerate the gradation of a certain quality (the Academies in fact prefer to call -ísimo a "suffix of extreme gradation": sufijo de grado extremo).

and a web search yields other irregular (and apparently lofty) forms like paupérrimo, but alas no explanation for the c in –císimo.

The Academies say that there's a "numerous" amount of supletive roots among these -ísimo words, yes. Antiquísimo (cf. antiguo), sapientísimo (cf. sabio).

Also - are there any other (colloquial) exceptions to the stem-ísim-gender/number.agreement that the book is glazing over?

You can add as many extra -is- syllables as you want before the stressed vowel: muchísimo, muchisísimo, muchisisisísimo, muchisisisisisisisisísimo, etc., in order to exaggarate the gradation. (The Academies are interestingly silent about this phenomenon, though I can assure you it's extremely common in San Salvador and Mexico City at least.)

Also note that most adverbs in -mente don't admit it according to the Academies, with the exception of brevísimamente, malísimamente, rarísimamente (to be honest, I have no problems saying stuff like "inteligentísimamente", so I don't agree with them here, though I'd suppose they're saying that based on a corpus and these forms may be rare, though we don't know for sure).

[Lyktorna]

Also, the -ísimo forms aren't superlatives (they don't compare a noun phrase against others, unlike Latin adjectives in -issimus), they exaggerate the gradation of a certain quality (the Academies in fact prefer to call -ísimo a "suffix of extreme gradation": sufijo de grado extremo).

I understand. Absolute superlative is a misleading name, though Wiki also uses it. The side note in my textbook that raised this question is next to information about the "true" superlatives. Curiously enough, there's a page on using poco, bien, and bastante to describe quality where there's nothing about -ísimo.

You can add as many extra -is- syllables as you want before the stressed vowel: muchísimo, muchisísimo, muchisisisísimo, muchisisisisisisisisísimo, etc., in order to exaggarate the gradation. (The Academies are interestingly silent about this phenomenon, though I can assure you it's extremely common in San Salvador and Mexico City at least.)

Also note that most adverbs in -mente don't admit it according to the Academies, with the exception of brevísimamente, malísimamente, rarísimamente (to be honest, I have no problems saying stuff like "inteligentísimamente", so I don't agree with them here, though I'd suppose they're saying that based on a corpus and these forms may be rare, though we don't know for sure).

I'll try to use multiple -is- during the next oral presentation and I'll see if my teacher says anything.

[Ser]

Curiously enough, there's a page on using poco, bien, and bastante to describe quality where there's nothing about -ísimo.

If it's of your interest, again, -ísimo affects the gradation of qualities, as long as these qualities are gradable, therefore it can even be used with poco: había poquísimas personas (there were very few people, había muy pocas personas).

What does your book say about bastante, btw? Does it say it means enough only, or does it also say and "quite a lot of (noun)"? Tenemos ya bastantes camisas (we already have enough shirts ~ we have quite a lot of shirts). (In my dialect it only means the latter. It's often confusing when talking to a speaker for whom it can mean former or perhaps exclusively the former.)

[Lyktorna]

What does your book say about bastante, btw? Does it say it means enough only, or does it also say and "too many (noun)"? Tenemos ya bastantes camisas (we already have enough shirts ~ we have too many shirts). (In my dialect it only means the latter. It's often confusing when talking to a speaker for whom it can mean former or perhaps exclusively the former.)

The book generally translates it as enough, my teacher (<not a native speaker, but she spent some time there etc;) generally uses it to mean the same, and I've usually interpreted it as such.

Some adverbs and adjectives have the same forms.

ADJ: bastante dinero enough money
ADV: bastante difícil rather difficult

[Viktor77]

Also note that most adverbs in -mente don't admit it according to the Academies, with the exception of brevísimamente, malísimamente, rarísimamente (to be honest, I have no problems saying stuff like "inteligentísimamente", so I don't agree with them here, though I'd suppose they're saying that based on a corpus and these forms may be rare, though we don't know for sure).

I'll try to use multiple -is- during the next oral presentation and I'll see if my teacher says anything.

Spanish loves this, and Spanish people don't hide their love for this phenomenon. My Colombian teacher always used to say un poquitito and would love you if you said un poquititititito. Likewise with -ísimo.

[Shm Jay]

I'll try to use multiple -is- during the next oral presentation and I'll see if my teacher says anything.

She’ll tell you to go back to Mississississississippi.

[Ser]

Spanish loves this, and Spanish people don't hide their love for this phenomenon. My Colombian teacher always used to say un poquitito and would love you if you said un poquititititito. Likewise with -ísimo.

Nice one. Mexico City and San Salvador Spanish also have grandotototototototote for "big" (but bear in mind the -ote/-ota suffix isn't widespread beyond this region). You could always use grandisisisisisisísimo tho.

[Torco]

-ote/-ota is uncommon, you say? I've heard it from mexicans, people from central america, colombians, and, certainly, chileans. Even my catalan relatives use it, albeit spanish *is* a second language for them.

[Ser]

I'm probably mistaken then.