the r/w distinction in English

[Lyra]

Oh! I finally get the sound... it's really strange...

~Lyra

[Salmoneus]

Well the guy who's reading the audiobook I'm listening to certainly sounds british, and, on second thought, he merges the two mostly in initial position, so it makes sense I never know if he's saying "rest" or "wrest" or "waste" xD

The first two are homophones (and the second is a ridiculously uncommon word), while the second one has a completely different vowel, so you shouldn't be mixing them up.

hey, I'm lucky if I can hear the O/o distinction. let alone the five or something different a-like vowels you guys have. Also, just this morning I had to pause and rewind to see if the guy had said weed or reed... it didn't make much narrative difference, but steed.

Neither of these vowels is a-like. If it's SSBE, it should be /E\/ vs /eI/, or something similar: central vs non-central, short vs long, monophthong vs diphthong.

[Torco]

I know, I'm just not all that great at vowels. the other day straio called to my attention that I had pronounced the word "but" as [bOt]

[Aurora Rossa]

I know, I'm just not all that great at vowels. the other day straio called to my attention that I had pronounced the word "but" as [bOt]

So when you say someone has a big butt, most people think you are talking about an oversized android? Actually, doesn't the V > O change occur in some dialects like the NCVS?

[Torco]

after googling it, I think that vowel shift is quite near my own pronunciation idiosyncracies.

bot I'm nat sho

[Travis B.]

I know, I'm just not all that great at vowels. the other day straio called to my attention that I had pronounced the word "but" as [bOt]

So when you say someone has a big butt, most people think you are talking about an oversized android? Actually, doesn't the V > O change occur in some dialects like the NCVS?

Some varieties of the NCVS have it; it's by no means universal in it.

Also, [bɔt] would likely be mistaken for boat or for bought (assuming cot-caught unmerged) rather than for bot...

[Torco]

isn't boat boUt or some other dipthong ?

[Bob Johnson]

isn't boat boUt or some other dipthong ?

yes, [boʊt]. but, travis.

[Astraios]

Also, [bɔt] would likely be mistaken for boat or for bought (assuming cot-caught unmerged) rather than for bot...

I heard it as boat, because he was saying something around [bɔ::::::t]~[bo:::::t].

[Torco]

damnit, now I want to give Ieseleu a nice vowel shift.

[Travis B.]

isn't boat boUt or some other dipthong ?

yes, [boʊt]. but, travis.

I know there are good portions of English which have significant diphthongs for boat (certainly not just the often-mentioned [oʊ̯], but most definitely also things like [əʊ̯], [əʉ̯], [ɐʊ̯], and [ɐʉ̯], even [ɛʊ̯] and [ɛʉ̯]). I live in an area with such pronunciations, and am well aware that they are found in much of the US, England, Australia, New Zealand, and Dublin, i.e. much of the English-speaking world.

But then, there are also good portions of the English-speaking world which commonly have monophthongs for boat, e.g. Upper Midwest, Canada, Scotland, most of Ireland outside greater Dublin and Leinster, and the Pacific Coast. And even in areas where diphthongal pronunciations are sporadically or conditionally found in, like where I am from, they tend to be ones like [oʊ̯] that are closer to the monophthong [o] and are normally interchangeable with it (e.g. only being found before hiatus or utterance-finally).

So don't get thinking that I am simply being particular about my own dialect here. (In particular I was thinking about Australian English with regard to hearing it as bought, actually.)

[Bob Johnson]

So don't get thinking that I am simply being particular about my own dialect here. (In particular I was thinking about Australian English with regard to hearing it as bought, actually.)

Well I have cot/caught split, so it's only bought for me. But all I remember is "you sound funny" (because you do) and æ→ɛ (because that turns my name into somebody else's name and drives me nuts). I can't remember all the other bits.

[Shihali]

Well, I don't know about British English, and I'm not sure what kind of "merger" you're referring to without a sound sample, but in American English it seems standard that the our /r/ is labialized. That is, if you say "red", you actually purse/round your lips at the beginning when you say "r". I even do it on consonant clusters like <str> (round my lips at the beginning and keep them rounded through the /s/ and /t/ and /r/)

Is there any sort of "partial labialization" worth noting? I noticed that I (conservative midwestern American English speaker) stick my lips out a little for /r/ and /S/, as much as I do for the /U/ in <book>, but much less than I do for /w/ or /u/.