AAVE names

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Terra
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Re: AAVE names

Post by Terra »

that's just a nerd being a nerd
In his defense, he said that he was discussing what to name the son with the mother (I would say wife or girlfriend, but she is neither.), and was getting frustrated that she wasn't liking any of his suggestions, so he humorously suggested "Ganon". Unfortunately, she liked it. (I'm disappointed that they didn't spell it "Gannon". The former suggests /genIn/ instead of /gænIn/ to me.) Yet, he still tried to justify it by saying that afterwards, they found it in a name-book with a Celtic etymology.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by Kereb »

if the kid's middle name is Dorf, then the justification can be ignored ...

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Salmoneus »

Gulliver wrote:
zompist wrote:Whites do this too. I recall reading an article about this (I forget where, I'm afraid), where the reporter talked to a bunch of people who said they wanted their kid to have a unique name or at least a unique spelling. Perhaps ironically, it was Asians who still just use traditional English names.
My name is Gulliver, I have a brother called Orlando and another called Hamish and a nephew called Luca. My best friend when I was little was a girl called Friday. While none of these names are quite Phónrixxia and Sharpaigne, none are exactly top-ten names. White people do indeed do it too.
One of my ex-neighbours once named their child 'Jaydon', specifically to have a name no other child would have. Needless to say, they didn't last long around here.

In my experience, uniqueing names is a very lower-class phenomenon - though exotic names (Orlando, et al) are a phenomenon more of the middle and upper classes.

[Actually, I'd say the upper classes are the ones most likely to adopt weird names. Just look at the line of succession: the immediate lot are pretty sensible (although William's middle name is 'Louis'), but even there there's a Theo (as a middle name, not an abbreviation) and a Eugenie, not to mention that Savannah is 12th in line to the thrown, with Isla one place down, followed by Zara. [Though Savannah and Isla are probably the result of their father, I'd guess]. #17 is Margarita, and one of her middle names is Alleyne. At #24, Lord Culloden's personal name is "Xan Richard Anders Windsor" - his daughter is Cosima, and his sister is Davina Benedikte. Davina's son is Tane Mahuta, and her daughter is Senna. Her sister Rose named her daughter a relatively traditional 'Lyla'. Currently excluded from place number #30 due to her religion is Lady Marina, which sounds a female Marina (like those old 'lady novelists' and 'lady policemen' that you used to get) (don't worry, 'Lady' is her title, not her name'). Although some say she's Marina-Charlotte with a hyphen, which sounds like a radio code.
34 is a Helen Marina, but her children are the real prizes - Columbus, Cassius, Eloise, and Estella. A little later it's Gabriella Marina, followed by an Alexandra who has an "Olga Christobel" tucked into her middle names. James Ogilvy has a 'Bruce' in his names, his daughter is Flora, his sister is another Marina, and her daughter, at #47 in line for the throne, is Zenouska. Then there are the Lascelle family. While little Leo Cyrus is illegitimate (and frankly, with a mother called Laleh, it's surprising he's as traditionally named as he is), Rowan and Sophie Amber are in line. Strikingly, while Jeremy names his children in the eighties things like "ellen" and "amy rose", he's lived up to the fashion of the age, meaning that #58 is Tallulah Grace. ]

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Nortaneous »

Louis, Bruce, and Eloise are perfectly normal names. Lyla is not.
Terra wrote:I have a sister named "Kyla" /'kaI.l@/ My mother's reasoning was this: She took the first part of her (my mother) mother's name ("Karen"), and the last part of her grandmother's name ("Lyla"). Somehow, I've even met other people with the name, though I didn't get to ask them why their parents named them so.
This is not uncommon. There's actually someone in one of my classes named Kyla. Predictably, she looks like a lesbian and watches Doctor Who because she wants to fuck the guy with no eyebrows who replaced the guy who looked like a parakeet hit by a truck.

I've always assumed it was an attempt at coming up with a female version of Kyle, but who knows.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by clawgrip »

Terra wrote:
that's just a nerd being a nerd
In his defense, he said that he was discussing what to name the son with the mother (I would say wife or girlfriend, but she is neither.), and was getting frustrated that she wasn't liking any of his suggestions, so he humorously suggested "Ganon". Unfortunately, she liked it. (I'm disappointed that they didn't spell it "Gannon". The former suggests /genIn/ instead of /gænIn/ to me.) Yet, he still tried to justify it by saying that afterwards, they found it in a name-book with a Celtic etymology.
Well, Ganon is the official spelling of the video game character's name.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Travis B. »

All I can is that these names, regardless of who is doing the naming, only demonstrate that original does not mean better. (Since when do parents have to try to make their kids special snowflakes by giving them strange and/or strangely spelled names... and is special-snowflake-ness desirable in the first place?)
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Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by hwhatting »

Viktor77 wrote:
dhokarena56 wrote:
Viktor77 wrote:I have a personal theory that the majority of so called "black names" are of creole inspiration as they all seem to portray elements of Romance languages. Le and La and De prefixed to a name is a definitive mark of French and anything ending in qua and quia, etc. is of Spanish origin even if mispronounced as [kw]. I think we can look to the influence of Louisianan Creole in the Southern USA, and later the influence of Spanish and specifically Spanish gender forms with -a, to explain the origin of these names.

Also, while Le-a may be a myth, I have met a Chloe spelled Chlo-e.
Viktor, call me a cynic, but I doubt that names innovated in the 20th-century urban North are influenced by Louisiana French. Louisiana French was pretty much extinct by the 1960s, and we have no evidence of your cited prefixes influencing antebellum or post-Reconstruction Southern black names, which we would have if your "personal theory" were true.
But where else would they have been exposed to French??? I highly doubt Quebec.
I think the names in La- are mostly due to wrong analysis of Arabic names like Laziza and Latifa.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Yng »

Do people actually call their children Laziza? hahahaha
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Radius Solis »

Nobody's pointed out yet all the astonishing things Mormons name their kids. Complete with Le-/La- and creatively spelled virtue names like MemRee and unpronounceables like X'l, inconceivables like Tiarrhea, and tongue twisters like DaLinda LaDale.

The full Utah Baby Namer site here. AAVE's got nothing on these folks.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Aurora Rossa »

Radius Solis wrote:Nobody's pointed out yet all the astonishing things Mormons name their kids. Complete with Le-/La- and creatively spelled virtue names like MemRee and unpronounceables like X'l, inconceivables like Tiarrhea, and tongue twisters like DaLinda LaDale.
Someone on this board would probably appreciate that.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by Solarius »

Radius Solis wrote:Nobody's pointed out yet all the astonishing things Mormons name their kids. Complete with Le-/La- and creatively spelled virtue names like MemRee and unpronounceables like X'l, inconceivables like Tiarrhea, and tongue twisters like DaLinda LaDale.

The full Utah Baby Namer site here. AAVE's got nothing on these folks.
I've actually heard that Mormon naming practices were a major influence on AAVE names.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by zompist »

Er, wut? Why would Mormons have any effect?

A more likely source of interest in exotic names, I think, is the Black Muslim movement. E.g. Malcolm X took the name Malik (from Arabic), and had daughters named Attallah, Qubilah, Ilyasah, Gamilah Lumumba, Malikah, and Malaak.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Vuvuzela »

zompist wrote:Er, wut? Why would Mormons have any effect?

A more likely source of interest in exotic names, I think, is the Black Muslim movement. E.g. Malcolm X took the name Malik (from Arabic), and had daughters named Attallah, Qubilah, Ilyasah, Gamilah Lumumba, Malikah, and Malaak.
But why, then, are so-called "Black" names not pseudo-Arabic instead of pseudo-French. I mean you don't see many Al-Qa'ils or As-Saams running around, do you?

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Re: AAVE names

Post by clawgrip »

Has it been established that they are pseudo-French?

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Terra »

But why, then, are so-called "Black" names not pseudo-Arabic instead of pseudo-French. I mean you don't see many Al-Qa'ils or As-Saams running around, do you?
Steps:
1) People hear foreign pseudo-Arabic names.
2) Deciding that they too want to have the status associated with the names, and laymen being laymen, they imperfectly imitate the names when naming their children.
3) Their children, also laymen, name their children in the same manner.
4) At some point, the trend continues whether the people are still laymen are not, because at some point, it just becomes the new normal.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Vuvuzela »

clawgrip wrote:Has it been established that they are pseudo-French?
They seem to be pseudo-Romance of some sort. The common prefixes "De" , "La" and "Le", and the fact that feminine names often end in "-a" seem to lean in that direction.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Viktor77 »

Vuvuzela wrote:
clawgrip wrote:Has it been established that they are pseudo-French?
They seem to be pseudo-Romance of some sort. The common prefixes "De" , "La" and "Le", and the fact that feminine names often end in "-a" seem to lean in that direction.
Yea, I'd say they are fare more Romance than Arabic.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by Shrdlu »

Nort, Pia used to be a common Swedish female name, from Latin pius.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by Astraios »

Vuvuzela wrote:
clawgrip wrote:Has it been established that they are pseudo-French?
They seem to be pseudo-Romance of some sort. The common prefixes "De" , "La" and "Le", and the fact that feminine names often end in "-a" seem to lean in that direction.
Feminine ending in -a is in Arabic as well though.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by jmcd »

Terra wrote:I do know a black girl named "Fakira", but she has a good reason for her name; She's straight from Africa.
Yeah but it does seem there's something of a double standard though. Some people seem to react badly to an American calling their kid Fakira but are ok with an African called John.
bíí’oxúyoo wrote:Nort, Pia used to be a common Swedish female name, from Latin pius.
Indeed. Likewise, the name Frankie doesn't strike me as unusual at all for example and already existed in the 1940s, if not earlier. And the Catherine/Katherine/Kathryn variation is even older.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by brandrinn »

What are you people talking about with this Romance crap? Have you ever bothered to look up any of these names? They are all based on West African bastardizations of Arabic. For example, Jamal, Jameela, from Arabic "beautiful." Sure, many of them are completely improvised, but we can discount those out of hand because they are stupid. The ones that are actual names are mostly indirectly from Arabic.
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Re: AAVE names

Post by linguoboy »

brandrinn wrote:What are you people talking about with this Romance crap? Have you ever bothered to look up any of these names? They are all based on West African bastardizations of Arabic. For example, Jamal, Jameela, from Arabic "beautiful." Sure, many of them are completely improvised, but we can discount those out of hand because they are stupid. The ones that are actual names are mostly indirectly from Arabic.
YMMV, I've met more /ˈæntwan/s and /ˈandreː/s (under a host of spellings) than I have /ʤaˈmal/s.

But what I really can't understand is why people are arguing that it's a case of either-or rather than both-and. After all, it's not like the influence on invented White names is only Romance or Celtic.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Dewrad »

Nobody's yet mentioned the weird Brazilian habit of using pseudo-English surnames ending in -son as male personal names as a comparison? I've met and worked with a Jackson, an Eddyson, a Ramson, an Anderson, and there's a footballer with the first name Richerlyson (sp?).
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Re: AAVE names

Post by linguoboy »

Dewrad wrote:Nobody's yet mentioned the weird Brazilian habit of using pseudo-English surnames ending in -son as male personal names as a comparison? I've met and worked with a Jackson, an Eddyson, a Ramson, an Anderson, and there's a footballer with the first name Richerlyson (sp?).
Not just Brazilian; I know an Emelson from Venezuela and I'm sure I've seen names like these among Spanish American players in Major League Baseball.

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Re: AAVE names

Post by Viktor77 »

brandrinn wrote:What are you people talking about with this Romance crap? Have you ever bothered to look up any of these names? They are all based on West African bastardizations of Arabic. For example, Jamal, Jameela, from Arabic "beautiful." Sure, many of them are completely improvised, but we can discount those out of hand because they are stupid. The ones that are actual names are mostly indirectly from Arabic.
I knew a Jamal. But what about names starting with La, Le, and De/Da are these names bastardised by Arabic conventions and not Romance ones? LaKeesha, D'Marcus, Daquavion, DeAndre Lashanda, LaNeisha, Latoya etc.
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