The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

[ol bofosh]

aqueous [ˈæ.kʷwɪə̯s ~ ɛɪ̯.kʰwɪə̯s] (not a word I use, so it could be either of those)

aquaman [ˈæ.kʰwə.mæːn]
aquaporins [æ.kʰwə.ˈpʰɒ.ʋɹɪ̈nz] seems most natural for me

Re: /wæ/ words, there's also wag, wham, wanker, wow, wax and wazzock, as I pronounce them.
[wæːg wæːm ˈwæŋ.kʰɜ wæʊ̯ wæks ˈwæ.zək]

Theta, what distinction do you make between TRAP BATH and PALM vowels? (I've recently noticed that my girlfriend doesn't)

[linguoboy]

[ˌse.ta.βe.βe̯a.ˈðo.ɾes]

mushroom-zed merger never fails to make me smile
[θe.βe.ˈβe.ɾos]

Also, I'd prefer to refer to it as the "marry-hunt" (casar-cazar) merger.

Not "cook-sew"?

[Thry]

technically cocer is boil

[linguoboy]

technically cocer is boil

Maybe in some dialects. In the standard language, "boil" is hervir.

[Thry]

Afaik, hervir is boiling a liquid. Cocer is boiling food (i.e. huevos cocidos, boiled eggs).

General word for cook is cocinar, in all dialects I'm aware of.

[Torco]

technically cocer is boil

Maybe in some dialects. In the standard language, "boil" is hervir.

cocer is to make something into something cocido. I don't use it, i use the adjective.
if you show me a fried chicken and ask me "está cocido?" i'd feel a bit weird, but answer, "si, esta cocido".
for example, a phrase that is gramamtical for me is "el pollo frito esta crudo por dentro, le falta cocérse".
cocinar is the act of doing food: like, chopping veggies, frying, adding sauce, you know, the works.

[----]

Re: /wæ/ words, there's also wag, wham, wanker, wow, wax and wazzock, as I pronounce them.
[wæːg wæːm ˈwæŋ.kʰɜ wæʊ̯ wæks ˈwæ.zək]

Theta, what distinction do you make between TRAP BATH and PALM vowels? (I've recently noticed that my girlfriend doesn't)

I wonder why I didn't think of those other /wæ/ words. It's always so hard to think of examples when I actually need to.

For me, the TRAP and BATH vowels are only distinguished by length: [tʃɹæp̚] vs. [bæːθ] and I'm fairly sure that's a result of the first ending in an occlusive. I pronounce palm [pʰaːm], i.e. it rhymes with 'bomb'.

[Ser]

Not "cook-sew"?

That would work too obvsly, but marry-hunt is funnier.

• Ese sacerdote [ka.ˈso] a mis papás.
  'That priest married my parents.' ~ 'That priest hunted my parents.'

As for the gloss, "cook" also shocked me as an inappropriate word because well... Although you could translate cocer easily as (intransitive, liable) "cook" (e.g. la carne se está cociendo 'the meat is cooking'), I don't *feel* it's the more common use of the English word "cook" at all. "Cook" is so general (it can refer to chopping veggies for example) that it feels practically like a hyperonym of what cocer means in comparison.

However, there is admittedly a problematic difference in semantic distribution between English and Spanish here, and it's tempting to just go for a short dictionary entry instead: "For [veggies/meat] to [boil], for [meat] to roast; to boil [veggies/meat], to roast [meat]" as a better "gloss"...

I suspect that you glossed it as "cook" because I've seen some Spanish textbooks for English speakers claim that Latin Americans say cocer instead of the allegedly-Spaniard cocinar. Let me tell you that's just bullshit: cocinar is extremely common in Latin American Spanish, and it's pretty close in meaning to English "cook".

Also, cocer is a pretty weird-ass verb. Morphologically, I don't know what its stem-stressed conjugations are: cozo/coce?, cuezo/cuece?—I simply don't use them (I just looked at the DRAE and it claims it's the latter pair tho). I use estoy cociendo/está cociendo instead. However, the past forms are certainly cocí/cociste/cocistes/coció/cocimos/cocieron—these are not stem-stressed conjugations. (It's not like my dialect has problems with stem-stressed conjugations, poder/puedo gives us no trouble for example; it's really just a weird thing about cocer.)

Syntactically, while the verb is normally reflexive/"pronominal" when it takes an inanimate subject (e.g. la carne se está cociendo, cf. the ungrammatical *la carne está cociendo), it's not necessarily reflexive/pronominal in the phrases poner a cocer and hacerle falta cocer, where the verb cocer seemingly takes the direct object of poner as its subject without necessarily being reflexive/pronominal (e.g. ya puse la carne a cocer(se), al pollo le hace falta cocer(se). There are perhaps other phrases like these two.

cocer is to make something into something cocido. I don't use it, i use the adjective.
[...]
"el pollo frito esta crudo por dentro, le falta cocérse".

Nah, I'm pretty sure you use it. Just look at your self contradiction here. XD

[ol bofosh]

I wonder why I didn't think of those other /wæ/ words. It's always so hard to think of examples when I actually need to.

I couldn't think of any, so I just went through the alphabet (wab, wac, wad, waf etc.)

For me, the TRAP and BATH vowels are only distinguished by length: [tʃɹæp̚] vs. [bæːθ] and I'm fairly sure that's a result of the first ending in an occlusive. I pronounce palm [pʰaːm], i.e. it rhymes with 'bomb'.

So, like GA, you collect them together TRAP-BATH, PALM-CLOTH, LOT-THOUGHT? Hmm, I might ask that on another thread...

[Thry]

Let me tell you that's just bullshit: cocinar is extremely common in Latin American Spanish, and it's pretty close in meaning to English "cook".

yay

Also, cocer is a pretty weird-ass verb. Morphologically, I don't know what its stem-stressed conjugations are: cozo/coce?, cuezo/cuece?—I simply don't use them (I just looked at the DRAE and it claims it's the latter pair tho). I use estoy cociendo/está cociendo instead. However, the past forms are certainly cocí/cociste/cocistes/coció/cocimos/cocieron—these are not stem-stressed conjugations. (It's not like my dialect has problems with stem-stressed conjugations, poder/puedo gives us no trouble for example; it's really just a weird thing about cocer.)

lolololol that's just you being a weirdo; cuezo/cueces is pretty obvious.
Read as: we do use those tenses commonly. And yea definitely with a diphthong.

Syntactically, while the verb is normally reflexive/"pronominal" when it takes an inanimate subject (e.g. la carne se está cociendo, cf. the ungrammatical *la carne está cociendo), it's not necessarily reflexive/pronominal in the phrases poner a cocer and hacerle falta cocer, where the verb cocer seemingly takes the direct object of poner as its subject without necessarily being reflexive/pronominal (e.g. ya puse la carne a cocer(se), al pollo le hace falta cocer(se). There are perhaps other phrases like these two.

Oh but la carne está cociendo is just fine.
Funny that you bring up "al pollo le hace falta cocerse" (which here is a no-go without the se, btw); we have an equivalent expression with the noun of hervir: "a fulanito le hace falta un hervor" that refers to person's immaturity (obv a metaphor from the food stuff).

[Izambri]

Precisely yesterday I heard a Venezuelan woman saying ...nos cocemos al sol. I find it a funny use of cocer, since the only thing I heard in Spanish is tostarse al sol.

[Thry]

I'm inclined to say you can say that here too; it doesn't sound odd at all.

You've heard one more! No te dije el otro día que no te turraras si te bronceabas?

[Izambri]

I'm inclined to say you can say that here too; it doesn't sound odd at all.

You've heard one more! No te dije el otro día que no te turraras si te bronceabas?

I find cocerse al sol a very weird way to mean tomar el sol. At least tostarse al sol is more self-explanatory, since it includes the "taking color" thing; but cocer is too tied to cooking! XD

[Thry]

Oh no but that's what she meant?

I thought we were talking about burning oneself! That's what cocerse comes across to me like at least.

[Izambri]

Oh no but that's what she meant?

I thought we were talking about burning oneself! That's what cocerse comes across to me like at least.

Yeah, she meant that, "to sunbathe". That's why I found it so weird.

[Thry]

xD then totally, raru raru

I even pictured smoke ascending in a flame-y horizon.

[Izambri]

xD then totally, raru raru

I even pictured smoke ascending in a flame-y horizon.

When I heard that woman a vision of some fifties-lads baking like pollastres a l'ast in a beach immediately came to my mind.

[linguoboy]

I suspect that you glossed it as "cook" because I've seen some Spanish textbooks for English speakers claim that Latin Americans say cocer instead of the allegedly-Spaniard cocinar. Let me tell you that's just bullshit: cocinar is extremely common in Latin American Spanish, and it's pretty close in meaning to English "cook".

If anything, I thought it was the opposite. That is, the Latin Americans I know mostly say cocinar, which I'd always assumed was a natural result of the merger.

I understand what you mean about cocer being less general than English cook. There are similar problems glossing German kochen, for instance. But if you have to pick a one-word gloss, it still makes more sense to me than "boil".

[Ser]

lolololol that's just you being a weirdo; cuezo/cueces is pretty obvious.
Read as: we do use those tenses commonly. And yea definitely with a diphthong.

Nah, I swear all the stem-stressed conjugations of cocer feel really weird to me. And I'm sure I've heard Salvadorans saying cozo/coce when trying to use simple forms of the verb.

Oh look, attestation!

es de un original cafetero enputarse hasta con la nana, y es de nanas de indios cafeteros vergiarlos hasta con las caserolas donde cosen el chunpe, asi somos los chichimekos parlantes, esta es mi tierra de dulces de ayotee... y el que diga algo, lo hago que se arte una hollada de arroz con tunko..

This Salvadoran forum has attestations of cuece too though. Maybe it's just that I'm not sure whether that verb takes a diphthong in stem-stressed conjugations or not.

Oh but la carne está cociendo is just fine.

Hmm... maybe. I kinda disagree. :P

Funny that you bring up "al pollo le hace falta cocerse" (which here is a no-go without the se, btw);

Idem.

[Thry]

Burn cocen with fire. hollada? From olla xD?

Izo, what's l'ast in Spanish? pollos al ...?

[Ser]

Burn cocen with fire. hollada? From olla xD?

Yeah, properly spelled ollada.

Es de un original cafetero emputarse hasta con la nana, y es de nanas de indios cafeteros vergearlos hasta con las cacerolas donde cocen el chumpe. Así somos los chichimecos parlantes, esta es mi tierra de dulces de ayote... Y el que diga algo, lo hago que se harte una ollada de arroz con tunco.

People just can't spell in that forum, not to mention it's chock-full of stupid discussions. It is a good source of colloquial Salvadoran tho.

[Izambri]

Izo, what's l'ast in Spanish? pollos al ...?

The literal translation would be pollos al asador, but I'm sure here Spaniards go the más o menos como suena way, although the result isn't as barbaric as alioli or pantumaca XD: pollos al ast, if I recall correctly.

And as a bonus point: Me llena el tanque full, por favor.

[Thry]

Oh I didn't know the food. Hey that's new for me! I'm taking alioli is from Cat. all i oli? Thank God cause ajoyaceite does sound stupid xD.

emputar is a fun word, though I prefer the Chilean variant emputecer. "que to' s'emputescan" has some magic to it.

[Izambri]

Oh I didn't know the food. Hey that's new for me! I'm taking alioli is from Cat. all i oli? Thank God cause ajoyaceite does sound stupid xD.

Amuse yourself

[ol bofosh]

matches
patches
catches
bitches
witches

Does that <t> do something in your accent, or is it just a pretty letter?