The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

[Nortaneous]

short vowels take -tch, not -ch, except in loanwords [catches/caches -- they have different vowels too IMD but not in most]

[ObsequiousNewt]

short vowels take -tch, not -ch, except in loanwords [catches/caches -- they have different vowels too IMD but not in most]

I have "caches" as /kæʃɨz/, though, not */keɪʧɨz/ as you would seem to suggest.

[ol bofosh]

I was asking because I noticed that /t/ appears in plural form, and wondered if anyone else had it too.

witch /wɪt͡ʃ/
witches /ˈwɪt.t͡ɪz/
patch /ˈpæt͡ʃ/
patches /ˈpæt.t͡ʃɪz /

Where, without analysing, I would have assumed /ˈwɪ.t͡ʃɪz ˈpæ.t͡ʃɪz/

The same doesn't seem to happen with words without <t> (i.e. long vowels)
beeches /bɪɨ̯.t͡ʃɪz/
torches /tɔː.t͡ʃɪz/

I have "caches" as /kæʃɨz/, though, not */keɪʧɨz/ as you would seem to suggest.

Ditto.

[Nortaneous]

^ That's that English ambisyllabicity thing, so that's completely as expected and has nothing to do with orthography.

short vowels take -tch, not -ch, except in loanwords [catches/caches -- they have different vowels too IMD but not in most]

I have "caches" as /kæʃɨz/, though, not */keɪʧɨz/ as you would seem to suggest.

I have never heard /e/ in 'caches'. I have /æ/ in 'caches' and /ɛ/ in 'catches'. (and 'am', and modal 'can' -- so the string of letters <can> can either be /kæn/ or /kɛn/, and the "we eat what we can and we can what we can't" joke only works when written)

[ol bofosh]

^ That's that English ambisyllabicity thing, so that's completely as expected and has nothing to do with orthography.

I thought it might be something to do with this:
Witch <ƿicce> /ˈwitt͡ʃe/
Leech <læce> /ˈlæːtʃe/

[ObsequiousNewt]

^ That's that English ambisyllabicity thing, so that's completely as expected and has nothing to do with orthography.

I thought it might be something to do with this:
Witch <ƿicce> /ˈwitt͡ʃe/
Leech <læce> /ˈlæːtʃe/

Basically. Consonants were geminated after a short vowel (compare "brytta".) In the case of ⟨ċ⟩ this geminated to /tʧ/, so it became written as ⟨tch⟩.

[linguoboy]

I have never heard /e/ in 'caches'.

I have, albeit rarely.

[Basilius]

11/12.

(I mean, the fraction. Like two thirds, only 11/12.)

[----]

[əˌɫɛvɨnˈtʰwɛɫθs]

the w is unvoiced too but that's probably not what you were asking about so this isn't like a super narrow transcription.

[ObsequiousNewt]

[əˌɫɛvɨnˈtʰwɛɫθs]

the w is unvoiced too but that's probably not what you were asking about so this isn't like a super narrow transcription.

I want to say that it's /5fT/, or at least the /5T/ is labialized.

[Basilius]

I want to say that it's /5fT/, or at least the /5T/ is labialized.

You mean, you drop the /s/?

[finlay]

[əɫɛvn̩twɛwfs] i think. but it varies: i also say [twɛɫθs] or [twɛwfθs] or get tongue tied and say [twɛɫθfs] (and yeah, the realisation of L is related to which consonant i drop – before θ it retains the dental POA, before f it loses it, in general. i mean i could say [twɛɫfθs] but it's kinda mentally and physically taxing on my tongue i guess?).

with 'sixths' i only ever say [sɪkθs]

[ObsequiousNewt]

I want to say that it's /5fT/, or at least the /5T/ is labialized.

You mean, you drop the /s/?

No, I mean that I don't entirely drop the /f/.

[Basilius]

I want to say that it's /5fT/, or at least the /5T/ is labialized.

You mean, you drop the /s/?

No, I mean that I don't entirely drop the /f/.

OK :)

with 'sixths' i only ever say [sɪkθs]

Oh, this one is relevant!

So, let it be:

(1) 11/12;
(2) 5/6.

[ObsequiousNewt]

with 'sixths' i only ever say [sɪkθs]

Oh, this one is relevant!

I think, if anything, I tend to elide/assimilate the /θ/ rather than the /s/, leaving me with something like [sIks:] or maybe [sIks̪:].

[KathTheDragon]

Hm... [fɑiv sɪkθs] and [ilɛvn̩ twɛlθs], I think. The in <eleven> can be [ɪ] or [ə]

[ol bofosh]

(1) 11/12 [ə.ˈlɛ.vənθ~ɪ.ˈlɛ.vən twɛɫfs~twɛʊ̯fs]
(2) 5/6 [fɐɪ̯v sɪkθs]

What about fifth? I have [fɪθ]

[Nortaneous]

fa(i̯)v sɪks(θs)
ɫ̩ɛvn̩ twɛɫ(θ)s
fɪθ

[Travis B.]

Eleven twelfths:
Standardized phonemes: /əˈlɛvɪn ˈtwɛlfs/
Dialectal phonemes: /əˈlɜvən ˈtwɜlfs/
Phones: [əːˈʟ̞ɜ̟ːvɨ̃(n) ˈt̻ʰwɜ̟ɤ̯fs] or [ɯ̞ːˈʟ̞ɜ̟ːvɨ̃(n) ˈt̻ʰwɜ̟ɤ̯fs]

Standardized phonemes: /əˈlɛən ˈtwɛlfs/
Dialectal phonemes: /əˈlɜən ˈtwɜlfs/
Phones: [əːˈʟ̞ɜ̟̂ːɜ̟̯̃(n) ˈt̻ʰwɜ̟ɤ̯fs] or [ɯ̞ːˈʟ̞ɜ̟̂ːɜ̟̯̃(n) ˈt̻ʰwɜ̟ɤ̯fs]

Five sixths:
Standardized phonemes: /ˈfaɪ̯v ˈsɪkss/
Dialectal phonemes: /ˈfae̯v ˈsɪkss/
Phones: [ˈfae̯f ˈsɪʔks̻ː]

Fifth:
Standardized phonemes: /ˈfɪθ/
Dialectal phonemes: /ˈfɪθ/
Phones: [ˈfɪθ]

[ObsequiousNewt]

In my rhotic dialect, small children often pronounce their r's as /w/, due to the fact that our ⟨r⟩ is labialized (something like [ɻʷ]). How do children pronounce their r's in non-rhotic dialects, or dialects where the ⟨r⟩ is non-labialized?

[ol bofosh]

In my rhotic dialect, small children often pronounce their r's as /w/, due to the fact that our ⟨r⟩ is labialized (something like [ɻʷ]). How do children pronounce their r's in non-rhotic dialects, or dialects where the ⟨r⟩ is non-labialized?

I have [ʋ͡ɹ̠ʷˤ] (non-rhotic), though not sure how widespread that is in Estuary English. I think [ʋ] can be quite common, and for years I thought of my rhotic consonant as labial without noticing what my tongue was doing.

[makvas]

Eleven twelfths
[ʟ̩ˈlɛvɨn twɛʟfs]

Fifth
[fɪθ]

Five sixths
[fɑiv sɪksθ]

I can't really do [kθs] reliably, so I say Sixths as Sixth.

[ObsequiousNewt]

Gösstraße

[ol bofosh]

I have the reflex to say ['gʏʉ̯s:tʋ͡ɹ̠ˤʷɐː.sɜ] (goose straße)
Usually German <ö>, like French <eu>, becomes [ʏː] .

[ObsequiousNewt]

I have the reflex to say ['gʏʉ̯s:tʋ͡ɹ̠ˤʷɐː.sɜ] (goose straße)
Usually German <ö>, like French <eu>, becomes [ʏː] .

Nice to know. Although frankly I was more interested in the apparent /sS/ (or is /S/ word-initial only?)