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[ˈfoːʊ̯jɘːtʃ] or, carefully, [ˈfoːʊ̯iːˌɘːtʃ]

[ˈfɔu̯ɫɪd͡ʒ]
I simply ignore the "i", as in "marriage".

Imralu wrote:[ˈfɔu̯ɫɪd͡ʒ]
I simply ignore the "i", as in "marriage".

Same.

The reason I asked is that I found myself accidentally saying it with /oh/ instead of /ow/ the other day and it didn't sound odd to me, but so far I can't find any examples of that variant in the wild. Supposedly there's also a variant with /oy/ that I dimly recall hearing and perhaps using when I was a child.

linguoboy wrote:The reason I asked is that I found myself accidentally saying it with /oh/ instead of /ow/ the other day and it didn't sound odd to me, but so far I can't find any examples of that variant in the wild. Supposedly there's also a variant with /oy/ that I dimly recall hearing and perhaps using when I was a child.

What is /oh/ in that transcription? /ɔː/?

linguoboy wrote:

Imralu wrote:[ˈfɔu̯ɫɪd͡ʒ]
I simply ignore the "i", as in "marriage".

Same.

The reason I asked is that I found myself accidentally saying it with /oh/ instead of /ow/ the other day and it didn't sound odd to me, but so far I can't find any examples of that variant in the wild. Supposedly there's also a variant with /oy/ that I dimly recall hearing and perhaps using when I was a child.

I've also heard it with /oi/ often enough that it wouldn't really strike me as unusual.

Pole, the wrote:

linguoboy wrote:The reason I asked is that I found myself accidentally saying it with /oh/ instead of /ow/ the other day and it didn't sound odd to me, but so far I can't find any examples of that variant in the wild. Supposedly there's also a variant with /oy/ that I dimly recall hearing and perhaps using when I was a child.

What is /oh/ in that transcription? /ɔː/?

/ɔː/ isn't a thing in American English, which is what Trager-Smith was designed for. It corresponds to /ɔ/ in most other systems (and to /ɑ/ or /a/ for those varieties which are cot-caught merged).

/ɔː/ isn't a thing in American English

As long as the phoneme isn't merged, this designation is — in my opinion — valid, apart from whether the sound itself is realized as [ɔ], [ɑ] or [a].

which is what Trager-Smith was designed for

Regardless of whether there is a need for a separate system, I don't think it's a good design. /oh/ doesn't really ring a bell in context of English phonology. (The first time I've read your post I thought you were talking about «oh» /oʊ/ and «ow» /aʊ/, but it didn't really make sense.)

linguoboy wrote:

Imralu wrote:[ˈfɔu̯ɫɪd͡ʒ]
I simply ignore the "i", as in "marriage".

Same.

The reason I asked is that I found myself accidentally saying it with /oh/ instead of /ow/ the other day and it didn't sound odd to me, but so far I can't find any examples of that variant in the wild. Supposedly there's also a variant with /oy/ that I dimly recall hearing and perhaps using when I was a child.

It might just be a spelling-based variant your mind came up with, since it's not really a common word. How would /oh/ in "spoliation" sound to you?

Sumelic wrote:It might just be a spelling-based variant your mind came up with, since it's not really a common word. How would /oh/ in "spoliation" sound to you?

Fine, but (a) I don't recall ever hearing this word spoken aloud and (b) I have a longstanding tendency to favour "short" pronunciations of vowels in Latinate words regardless of etymology. (For instance, for years I pronounced velar with /eh/[*] and when I first learned apoptosis, I pronounced it as a paroxytone with /oh/ and the second <o> reduced.)


[*] Suck it, the Pole.

I don't understand any of the phonemic stuff just listed...

linguoboy wrote:[*] Suck it, the Pole.

Well, if you want to keep being incomprehensible, it's your choice…

I tried googling Trager-Smith but couldn't find any sort of explanation.

Pole, the wrote:

linguoboy wrote:[*] Suck it, the Pole.

Well, if you want to keep being incomprehensible, it's your choice…

Thank you for your concern!

Back on the subject of vowel quality in learned vocabulary, I think homosexual and related words (e.g. homoerotic, homophobia) are the only ones where I pronounce the prefix homo- /howmow/. The stressed vowel is definitely /oh/ in homologous and homophone even though it's a different vowel in each case.

Imralu wrote:I don't understand any of the phonemic stuff just listed...

IIUC: I think he was saying he usually says [ˈfowlɪd͡ʒ] but once caught himself saying [ˈfɔlɪd͡ʒ] instead and observed that this didn't sound odd to him. He vaguely recalled even hearing and perhaps using [ˈfɔjlɪd͡ʒ] before, and Zaarin confirmed that he's heard this particular pronunciation too often to consider it unusual. Then Sumelic suggested that this pronunciation of linguoboy's might have been spelling-based(!) and asked him how the first vowel(?) in 'spoliation' would sound to him, and linguoboy said he'd never heard 'spoliation' spoken aloud and he prefers "shorter" vowel pronunciations in Latinate words, e.g. he used to pronounce velar as [ˈvɛlɹ̩] (incidentally, I believe this is a commonly accepted pronunciation at least among American linguists and that some professors would pronounce it this way themselves) and apoptosis as something like [əˈpʰɔɾɨsɪs] (or maybe [əˈpʰɔɾəsɪs]). In his last post, he was saying probably the only words where he pronounces homo- as [howmow] have to do with homosexuality, because in homologous and homophone, he definitely pronounces the stressed vowel as [ɔ].

linguoboy wrote:[*] Suck it, the Pole.

"Suck my pole!"

Vijay wrote:apoptosis as something like [əˈpʰɔɾɨsɪs] (or maybe [əˈpʰɔɾəsɪs]).

Dude, you're haplologising!

Vijay wrote:"Suck my pole!"

I am scandalised that you would even imagine me saying such a thing!

linguoboy wrote:

Vijay wrote:apoptosis as something like [əˈpʰɔɾɨsɪs] (or maybe [əˈpʰɔɾəsɪs]).

Dude, you're haplologising!

Wait, I am??

EDIT: Oh, I reread your post. I guess you meant something like [æpəˈtʰoʊsɪs] (but then how do you pronounce it now?). But then how is that hap...well, I guess because of the stress shift?

Vijay wrote:"Suck my pole!"

I am scandalised that you would even imagine me saying such a thing!

Too street?

Vijay wrote:

linguoboy wrote:[*] Suck it, the Pole.

"Suck my pole!"

Lol.

Vijay wrote:

linguoboy wrote:

Vijay wrote:apoptosis as something like [əˈpʰɔɾɨsɪs] (or maybe [əˈpʰɔɾəsɪs]).

Dude, you're haplologising!

Wait, I am??

EDIT: Oh, I reread your post. I guess you meant something like [æpəˈtʰoʊsɪs] (but then how do you pronounce it now?). But then how is that hap...well, I guess because of the stress shift?

I mean because you dropped a /p/ in your attempt at representation. I initially said /ə'pohptəsihs/ and switched to /əˌpohp'towsihs/ after speaking to a friend who used the word in his work.

Oh, I didn't realize some people pronounce the second p.

Vijay wrote:Oh, I didn't realize some people pronounce the second p.

I didn't realise some people didn't!

Funny, Wiktionary makes it look like it's people who pronounce the last vowel [ɪ] that drop the [p] and people who pronounce it [ə] that don't, except in British English.

What is 'I'mma' supposed to be pronounced like? The closrst thing I ever hear is /a(I)m@n@/.

I'd say [ˈʔajmə], but apparently, it's supposed to be [ˈʔaːmə].

Vijay wrote:I'd say [ˈʔajmə], but apparently, it's supposed to be [ˈʔaːmə].

...There are initial glottal stops in English?

Zaarin wrote:

Vijay wrote:I'd say [ˈʔajmə], but apparently, it's supposed to be [ˈʔaːmə].

...There are initial glottal stops in English?

Huh? Of course there are.

English speakers usually insert a glottal stop before word initial vowels, like in the words it, ate, and ouch.