The Innovative Usage Thread

[tezcatlip0ca]

I personally don't think English has a morphologically productive subjunctive.

Were that true for all dialects, I'd agree with you.

"Present" subjunctive is definitely morphologically productive here, albeit being limited in distinctive marking to third person singular and being primarily found in particular sorts of syntactic constructions...

Same here. "if you are good" sounds awkward to me, I'd say "if you be good".

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seconded.

[äreo]

I personally don't think English has a morphologically productive subjunctive.

Were that true for all dialects, I'd agree with you.

"Present" subjunctive is definitely morphologically productive here, albeit being limited in distinctive marking to third person singular and being primarily found in particular sorts of syntactic constructions...

Same here. "if you are good" sounds awkward to me, I'd say "if you be good".

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seconded.

Thirded.

[Bristel]

I'd have "I demand that she stops doing that!".

[tezcatlip0ca]

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seconded.

Thirded.

Fourthed.

[Astraios]

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seconded.

Thirded.

Fourthed.

Fifthed.

I'd be more likely to say "Make her stop (that)!" though.

[hwhatting]

They don't sing the right song on that video. But well done for trying.

That's what I get for switching the sound off...
Well, for those who still don't know whether it's "in" or "on" a submarine.

[bulbaquil]

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seconded.

Thirded.

Fourthed.

Fifthed.

I'd be more likely to say "Make her stop (that)!" though.

Sixthed and concur with Astraios.

Although it might actually be fifthed, since I don't see how Canepari can fourth what he/she firsted.

[Radius Solis]

Oiy, the old subjunctive one again. I think it's pretty clear that we do have a subjunctive operation, but also that this operation is very restricted in when it can occur, is not always formed distinctly from the indicative, and does not involve any dedicated morphemes but rather the re-use of other wordforms in a set pattern that differs from the normal indicative pattern. Given that, I think it safe to say we have no *morphological* subjunctive, productive or otherwise.

Instead we have a syntactic transformation. Or rather several. But limited though they be, had we truly lost the subjunctive you'd demand I be shot, if it were possible, just for writing this sentence.

[Bob Johnson]

But limited though they be, had we truly lost the subjunctive you'd demand I be shot, if it were possible, just for writing this sentence.

I demand it regardless.

[Travis B.]

I would also say "I demand she stop doing that!".

Seventhed.

[tezcatlip0ca]

Sixthed and concur with Astraios.

Although it might actually be fifthed, since I don't see how Canepari can fourth what he/she firsted.

First of all, I'm male. Secondly, the quotes are wrong; TaylorS firsted it, I seconded and fourthed it, and äreo thirded.

[Herra Ratatoskr]

to-the-nth-power-ed

[tezcatlip0ca]

to-the-n+1th-powered

[äreo]

Today I said 'divid' [dɨ'vɪd] as the past form of 'divide'.

[linguoboy]

Hearing the BBC say "pro'testers" the other day reminded me that I seem to have a distinction between:

pro'test--state emphatic disagreement
'protest--march on the street with placards

I imagine this is a case of stress-derivation followed by zero-derivation, e.g. pro'test > 'protest "emphatic disagreement, esp. a public manifestation expressing this" > 'protest "participate in a public protest".

[finlay]

Is that 'innovative', though? It's a fairly regular noun/verb stress distinction that's made on Latinate words with a prefix, like protest, or record....

[AnTeallach]

Hearing the BBC say "pro'testers" the other day reminded me that I seem to have a distinction between:

pro'test--state emphatic disagreement
'protest--march on the street with placards

I imagine this is a case of stress-derivation followed by zero-derivation, e.g. pro'test > 'protest "emphatic disagreement, esp. a public manifestation expressing this" > 'protest "participate in a public protest".

Language Log did this recently:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2982

I'm confusing myself trying to work out what I do. I'm pretty sure I say pro'testor (it feels wrong with first syllable stress), but I think I might have the two verbs.

[finlay]

oh wait, I understand now. I thought you meant that you pro'test at a 'protest, which is what I'd expect.

[Bristel]

My father has some strange pronunciations of words...

He was born in the Seattle area, and lived there all his life, except for 2 years in Utah.

The only one I can think of is /ˈɛfɹɪt/ for /ˈɛfərt/ <effort>, so he's got some weird metathesis and vowel change going on with that.

[linguoboy]

The only one I can think of is /ˈɛfɹɪt/ for /ˈɛfərt/ <effort>, so he's got some weird metathesis and vowel change going on with that.

My dad has "preception" for "perception", among others.

[Nortaneous]

Is that 'innovative', though? It's a fairly regular noun/verb stress distinction that's made on Latinate words with a prefix, like protest, or record....

I don't have it. I also have initial stress on "protester".

[Bedelato]

For some reason I keep wanting to analyze the "help" in "God help us" as an imperative.
I read somewhere that it's actually a present subjunctive, but I could be wrong.

Well, nowadays English can hardly be said to have a subjunctive, so the only sensible thing would be to analyse it as imperative. Etymologically it is probably subjunctive, but it would be silly to call it that now.

Um how about "That a red one, or?" You put it on the end of a sentence and ask is it the case, like confirmation. I think it's more or less that.

My sister (Swedish L1) does that all the time. I've never heard it by a native. Sounds very wrong to me.

Speaking of subjunctive; I've given up those in English (and stopped saying "if I were") but I'm trying to revive them in Swedish, with such expressions as varde lunch, "let there be lunch".

I tend to use "if I were" quite a lot... I must be behind the linguistic times.

At least in more formal speech, the past subjunctive is still used in counterfactual "if" clauses. But even there it's dying: "if I was" means pretty much the same thing.

I think it's because for most verbs (in fact, all except "be"), the past subjunctive is homophonous with the past indicative. The distinction has been leveled with all verbs except the copula. And you know what tends to happen to unsupported structures...

[linguoboy]

At least in more formal speech, the past subjunctive is still used in counterfactual "if" clauses. But even there it's dying: "if I was" means pretty much the same thing.

These kinds of claims need to be backed up. Certainly, only a minority have "if I were". But I haven't since clear evidence that this minority is shrinking.

[Nortaneous]

"woke and boke"

[tezcatlip0ca]

Boke? That's a new one. I have said bake/book/baken however.