Ulrike Meinhof wrote:I readily distinguish between these:
Me too:
Szpilki, pinezki, agrafki, igły.
Is there a single hypernym which embraces these four terms? (In my English, the first three are "pins" but the fourth is a "needle" and I can't readily find a broader term more precise or conventionalised than "pointy things".)
linguoboy wrote:(In my English, the first three are "pins" but the fourth is a "needle" and I can't readily find a broader term more precise or conventionalised than "pointy things".)
"There was a particular car I soon came to think of as distinctly St. Louis-ish: a gigantic white S.U.V. with a W. bumper sticker on it for George W. Bush."
linguoboy wrote:(In my English, the first three are "pins" but the fourth is a "needle" and I can't readily find a broader term more precise or conventionalised than "pointy things".)
"sharps"
get a better English
Isn't that only really in a medical/drugs context? It's not exactly a general use term, in my English anyway...
Ulrike Meinhof wrote:Are we interested in a bit perspective on the pin discussion?
What about other Swedish speakers, or speakers of other languages?
Catalan:
1. Agulla de cap "pin"; literally "head needle".
2. Xinxeta "drawing pin". It's a diminutive of xinxa, which is the same thing but without the head.
3. Agulla imperdible "safety pin"; or simply imperdible *"unloseable".
4. Agulla de cosir "sewing needle", or simply agulla "needle".
linguoboy wrote:(In my English, the first three are "pins" but the fourth is a "needle" and I can't readily find a broader term more precise or conventionalised than "pointy things".)
"sharps"
get a better English
Isn't that only really in a medical/drugs context? It's not exactly a general use term, in my English anyway...
Yeah, to me "sharps" are pointy things a health care worker jabs into you. (Typically hypodermics, but also those simple disposables used for fingerprick tests.)
Ulrike Meinhof wrote:I readily distinguish between these:
Me too:
Szpilki, pinezki, agrafki, igły.
Is there a single hypernym which embraces these four terms? (In my English, the first three are "pins" but the fourth is a "needle" and I can't readily find a broader term more precise or conventionalised than "pointy things".)
None that I can think about. The usual vague expressions would simply be coś do przypięcia, coś żeby przypiąć X, coś do spięcia, coś żeby spiąć X, if you want to fasten/pin sth up.
linguoboy wrote:
Yeah, to me "sharps" are pointy things a health care worker jabs into you.
Interesting. I'd never have heard of a sharp!
Not even in the context of a 'sharps bin'? Those yellow bins used to dispose of used needles etc in hospitals or doctors' surgeries.
I've seen one, because I had a friend with diabetes, but I didn't know to call it that. The term does reek of clinicality for some reason. I would agree that there is no neat word in English that covers both pins and needles despite them being obviously related items.
spats wrote:Regarding the innovation of new 2P pronouns in English:
There are two "stages" if you will. In the first, a substitute like "you guys" is brought in, but only used for clarification - i.e. when using "you" would be ambiguous, or when emphasizing that s/he is talking to a whole group, and the usage may not be consistent. In the second stage, the innovated word of phrase becomes a true pronoun, and is always used.
In New England, we usually used "you guys", but it was a clarifying thing. My mother in law is from upstate New York and uses "youse" or "yuz" consistently as a 2P pronoun. Down here in Virginia where I live now, y'all is a pretty consistent 2P pronoun among locals but not transplants.
I think the "all y'all" thing is a good sort of test. Would a speaker use "all [of] <2P>", or "all of you" to address the entirety of a group? My mother in law would definitely use "all of youse", and most Southerners would use "all y'all", while a Bostonian who normally uses "you guys" would probably just say "all of you".
I'm definitely at stage 2. I say "you guys" even if all the people I'm addressing are female. I always use "all you guys", not "all you".
spats wrote:Regarding the innovation of new 2P pronouns in English:
There are two "stages" if you will. In the first, a substitute like "you guys" is brought in, but only used for clarification - i.e. when using "you" would be ambiguous, or when emphasizing that s/he is talking to a whole group, and the usage may not be consistent. In the second stage, the innovated word of phrase becomes a true pronoun, and is always used.
In New England, we usually used "you guys", but it was a clarifying thing. My mother in law is from upstate New York and uses "youse" or "yuz" consistently as a 2P pronoun. Down here in Virginia where I live now, y'all is a pretty consistent 2P pronoun among locals but not transplants.
I think the "all y'all" thing is a good sort of test. Would a speaker use "all [of] <2P>", or "all of you" to address the entirety of a group? My mother in law would definitely use "all of youse", and most Southerners would use "all y'all", while a Bostonian who normally uses "you guys" would probably just say "all of you".
I'm definitely at stage 2. I say "you guys" even if all the people I'm addressing are female. I always use "all you guys", not "all you".
spats wrote:Regarding the innovation of new 2P pronouns in English:
There are two "stages" if you will. In the first, a substitute like "you guys" is brought in, but only used for clarification - i.e. when using "you" would be ambiguous, or when emphasizing that s/he is talking to a whole group, and the usage may not be consistent. In the second stage, the innovated word of phrase becomes a true pronoun, and is always used.
In New England, we usually used "you guys", but it was a clarifying thing. My mother in law is from upstate New York and uses "youse" or "yuz" consistently as a 2P pronoun. Down here in Virginia where I live now, y'all is a pretty consistent 2P pronoun among locals but not transplants.
I think the "all y'all" thing is a good sort of test. Would a speaker use "all [of] <2P>", or "all of you" to address the entirety of a group? My mother in law would definitely use "all of youse", and most Southerners would use "all y'all", while a Bostonian who normally uses "you guys" would probably just say "all of you".
I'm definitely at stage 2. I say "you guys" even if all the people I'm addressing are female. I always use "all you guys", not "all you".
Same here as well.
Same, tho with occasional use of "y'all" instead of "you guys".
Ulrike Meinhof wrote:Are we interested in a bit perspective on the pin discussion?
1. sewing pin (or pin -- I wouldn't use pin for the other three though)
2. pushpin (or thumbtack? although thumbtacks normally have the little hat thing)
3. safety pin
4. needle
1. Agulla de cap "pin"; literally "head needle".
2. Xinxeta "drawing pin". It's a diminutive of xinxa, which is the same thing but without the head.
3. Agulla imperdible "safety pin"; or simply imperdible *"unloseable".
4. Agulla de cosir "sewing needle", or simply agulla "needle".
On the other hand, in Catalan...
1. This are xapes, singular xapa. They have a safety pin behind.
2. This is also a xapa. No pins or needles.
They are the protection for cork stoppers in wine bottles.
