Scandinavian (Now with more isoglosses)
Scandinavian (Now with more isoglosses)
Yesterday I began messing with Scandinavian dialects again, and ended up making this map. It uses a somewhat non-standard classification for the different varieties than what's usually seen. The accuracy of this classification can obviously be discussed, but I think it's fairly good. One main point of this map was that I wanted to try to step away from labelling everything with "Danish" or "Norwegian" because, well, it's a continuum. This is why you see some non-standard terms used for some varieties, although, this is not the case for all of them. And just so we're clear, I'm not saying these are all part of the same continuum, or that they're all dialects or something like that. I'm pointing out general varieties of the North Scandinavian language in a traditional/historical sense.
Comments and criticism is most welcome, especially thoughts about the classification are welcome, as it's rather experimental than something that I'm arguing for. And even if you don't know or care too much about Scandinavian languages, I thought this could still be interesting, because it's an interesting map. :)
And in case anyone's wondering, the 2 encirlced pixels refer to Runö (Ruhnu) and Gammelsvenskby (Старошведське). Also note that "Swedish" should be read in the context of svear, rather than of Sweden. I felt like making the names look good in English, which created this little ambiguity, but what're you gonna do :(
So, here you go:
Comments and criticism is most welcome, especially thoughts about the classification are welcome, as it's rather experimental than something that I'm arguing for. And even if you don't know or care too much about Scandinavian languages, I thought this could still be interesting, because it's an interesting map. :)
And in case anyone's wondering, the 2 encirlced pixels refer to Runö (Ruhnu) and Gammelsvenskby (Старошведське). Also note that "Swedish" should be read in the context of svear, rather than of Sweden. I felt like making the names look good in English, which created this little ambiguity, but what're you gonna do :(
So, here you go:
Last edited by Aszev on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
CERVENIAN
JELSH
JELSH
Miekko wrote:protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.
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Nice map! I think it's pretty accurate. One comment: the classification of the languages/dialects spoken around Älvdalen, Sweden (in the northeastern corner of the area you painted dark green) is heavily disputed. Some (Swedish) linguists have classified it as a form of Svealandic, others consider it a separate language, in between East- and West-Norse. But I have never seen it classified with the Østland varieties.
I myself have also tried to make a map of the Scandinavian dialects, but I wanted to do it in much more detail. I stopped when I learned that almost every parish in Norway and Sweden has its own dialect variety. But if you're interested I can post the map as far as I have it.
I myself have also tried to make a map of the Scandinavian dialects, but I wanted to do it in much more detail. I stopped when I learned that almost every parish in Norway and Sweden has its own dialect variety. But if you're interested I can post the map as far as I have it.
Ernie: Nothing.
Bert: What did you say?
Ernie: Nothing.
Bert: I thought you said something.
Bert: What did you say?
Ernie: Nothing.
Bert: I thought you said something.
It isn't. The part you're confusing for Älvdalen is in face the two parishes Särna and Idre. Älvdalen is to the south east, within the Swedish area.Agricola Avicula wrote:Nice map! I think it's pretty accurate. One comment: the classification of the languages/dialects spoken around Älvdalen, Sweden (in the northeastern corner of the area you painted dark green) is heavily disputed. Some (Swedish) linguists have classified it as a form of Svealandic, others consider it a separate language, in between East- and West-Norse. But I have never seen it classified with the Østland varieties.
Sure.Agricola Avicula wrote:I myself have also tried to make a map of the Scandinavian dialects, but I wanted to do it in much more detail. I stopped when I learned that almost every parish in Norway and Sweden has its own dialect variety. But if you're interested I can post the map as far as I have it.
CERVENIAN
JELSH
JELSH
Miekko wrote:protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.
I suggest you read the text. Besides, you probably speak Standard Book Swedish anyway, which is not covered on this map.rickardspaghetti wrote:What? I don't speak Swedish anymore!?
I suggest you read the text.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
CERVENIAN
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JELSH
Miekko wrote:protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.
A decent amount is personal knowledge, and then i complement with several books and some websites. On Danish and Norwegian I have to rely a bit more on a narrow amount of sources because I unfortunately don't have a lot of literature about their dialects (I'm more well-supplied on the Swedish ones).
To be completely fair, this classification is somewhat based on several discussions I had like one or two years ago, and I don't remember the full details on what we based everything on. As I said it's a bit experimental. What made me pick it up again was that I started to think about the relationships between the varieties of Sweden and Norway, because I'm not too convinced a straight Swedish vs Norwegian grouping is necessarily the best one.
To be completely fair, this classification is somewhat based on several discussions I had like one or two years ago, and I don't remember the full details on what we based everything on. As I said it's a bit experimental. What made me pick it up again was that I started to think about the relationships between the varieties of Sweden and Norway, because I'm not too convinced a straight Swedish vs Norwegian grouping is necessarily the best one.
CERVENIAN
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Miekko wrote:protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.
It was founded by Swedes who were deported from Estonia by Catherine the Great.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
CERVENIAN
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JELSH
Miekko wrote:protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.
Huh, I've heard something completely else. Oh well.Aszev wrote:It was founded by Swedes who were deported from Estonia by Catherine the Great.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
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It was founded by Xenu, as a colony for his secret agents who then migrated to Sweden and brought their language with them. Yes, Xenu and his people speak Swedish and English is just another dialect of it, like Hixkaryana and Esperanto(Edo Nyland was right after all!). If you believe otherwise, you're stupid!Aszev wrote:It was founded by Swedes who were deported from Estonia by Catherine the Great.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
俺はその証だ。
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Looks like you managed to fix up the legend really well. The map looks really good, and is considerably easier to follow than the legendless version I first laid my eyes on.
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The eighteenth-century Swedish army conquered stuff in Ukraine? Wow.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
(Incidentally, I was under the impression that the eighteenth-century Swedish army pretty much succeeded only in losing what the seventeenth-century one had conquered - which itself had stopped a few thousand miles short of Ukraine, AFAIK. But it's amazing what you can learn on the Interwebz, and without Google, too!)
WHS. Give us an isogloss map next!Åge Kruger wrote:It's a good map, but I wonder what features you're splitting on?
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The Swedish spoken there is mainly transplanted dialects from other parts of Norrland, but no dialects really are 'native' there, except for dialects of Finnish and Sami - and probably the number of Finnish speakers always has been higher than that of Sami speakers there.jal wrote:Sami?Io wrote:What's spoken at the northern tip of Sw?
JAL
< Cev> My people we use cars. I come from a very proud car culture-- every part of the car is used, nothing goes to waste. When my people first saw the car, generations ago, we called it šuŋka wakaŋ-- meaning "automated mobile".
Gammalsvenskby was actually founded by Swedes who were effectively deported from Estonia by Catherine the Great (or at least deceptively promised what seemed to be a good offer land-wise at the time); most of the Swedes who were initially moved there actually died on the way or pretty soon thereafter.Xonen wrote:The eighteenth-century Swedish army conquered stuff in Ukraine? Wow.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
(Incidentally, I was under the impression that the eighteenth-century Swedish army pretty much succeeded only in losing what the seventeenth-century one had conquered - which itself had stopped a few thousand miles short of Ukraine, AFAIK. But it's amazing what you can learn on the Interwebz, and without Google, too!)
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
They somehow winded up there from Germany. I don't know, I just read about it in a newspaper article once.Xonen wrote:The eighteenth-century Swedish army conquered stuff in Ukraine? Wow.Qwynegold wrote:It was founded in like the 18th century by people from the Swedish army when they were conquering stuff.rickardspaghetti wrote:"Rickard looks through the map once again."
What!? There are Swedish speakers in Ukraine?
(Incidentally, I was under the impression that the eighteenth-century Swedish army pretty much succeeded only in losing what the seventeenth-century one had conquered - which itself had stopped a few thousand miles short of Ukraine, AFAIK. But it's amazing what you can learn on the Interwebz, and without Google, too!)
Apparently some Germans got there too, indeed, but the Swedes came from (what is now) Estonia. They apparently still speak some variety of German over there, and some even speak an old Swedish dialect
But there are probably other sources that contradict the ones some of us here have read
But there are probably other sources that contradict the ones some of us here have read
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott