Help your fluency in a nifty way

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
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Pole, the
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Pole, the »

hwhatting wrote:Smacznego, i wszystkim Szczęśliwego Nowego Roku!
I see you've already started the party! :P

(Also, it sounds better if you leave „wszystkim” at the end.)
Szybkiego powrotu do zdrowia!
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Jonlang »

Blwyddyn newydd dda, bawb!
Happy new year, everyone!
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Ac i tithau, Jon!
Gurb amhlaidh duit, a Jon!
Toi aussi, Jon!
And to you, Jon!

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Viktor77
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

Je suis à Ruisbroek, Belgique, près de Bruxelles, pour ma recherche sur terrain. L'idée de devoir parler avec des gens inconnus dans une commune plus ou moins inconnue me fait vraiment peur. Je reste avec un ami ici donc cela aide. J'espère qu'il peut me présenter aux gens dans la commune et qu'ils seront d'accord à me parler pendant une bonne quarantaine de minutes. C'est déjà intéressant parce que je suis dans une commune offciellement 100% flamande mais entourré par des francophones.

I am in Ruisbroek, Belgium, near Brussels, for my fieldwork. The idea of having to speak to strangers in a municipality that's more or less unknown scares me. I'm staying with a friend here so that helps. I hope he can introduce me to people in the municipality and that they will agree to speak with me for a good 40 minutes. It's already interesting because I am in a municipality that is officially 100% Flemish but surrounded by francophones.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Viktor77 wrote:It's already interesting because I am in a municipality that is officially 100% Flemish but surrounded by francophones.
Wirklich? Als ich die Karte anschaue, sehe ich dass es am Norden gegen Brussel anliegt, aber am Süden gibt's nur Flemische Gemeinde, oder?
Really? When I look at the map, I see that in the North it touches Brussels, but in the South there's just Flemmisch municipalities*?

*According to Wikipedia, that's all technically one big municipality, but you get the gist.


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

jal wrote:Really? When I look at the map, I see that in the north it touches (borders [on]) Brussels, but in the south there's just Flemmisch municipalities*?
Ja, nach Wikipedia ist ganz Sint-Pieters-Leeuw (davon Ruisbroek ein Stadtteil ist) offiziell flämischsprachig.
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, all of Sint-Pieters-Leeuw (which Ruisbroek is a part of) is officially Flemish-speaking.

Auch nach Wikipedia liegt Sint-Pieters-Leeuw selbst in der sogenannten 'Toscane van het Noorden'. Da lachen ja die Hühner.
Also according to Wikipedia, Sint-Pieters-Leeuw itself lies in the so-called 'Toscane van het Noorden'. You gotta be kidding me.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

La communauté touche la frontière bruxelloise à plusieurs endroits, Anderlecht, Forest, et Uccle. Ruisbroek a une forte présence de francophones, mais c'est un terrirotire néerlandais selon le principle de la territorialité. Mais demain soir j'ai déjà rencontré des gens, il faut juste prendre mon courage à deux mains à leur demander de 30 minutes de leur temps pour les interviews.

Et d'ailleurs, ce n'est pas la Toscane du nord haha!


The community touches the Brussels boarder at several locations, Anderlecht, Forest, and Uccle. Ruisbroek has a strong presence of francophones, but it's a Dutch territory according to the territoriality principle. But yesterday evening I already met some people, I just have to work up the courage to ask them for 30 minutes of their time for interviews.

Oh it's not the Tuscany of the north haha!
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Viktor77 wrote:Oh it's not the Tuscany of the north haha!
Das sagst du wohl, aber hast du den örtlichen Fasan gekostet?
You say that, but have you sampled the local pheasant?

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Wirklich? Wenn ich die Karte anschaue, sehe ich, dass es im Norden an Brüssel anliegt*1), aber im Süden gibt's nur flämische Gemeinden, oder?
Really? When I look at the map, I see that in the North it touches Brussels, but in the South there's just Flemmish municipalities*?
*1) I'd prefer dass es Brüssel im Norden berührt.
Nigdy w życiu nie jadłem bażanta.
Jamais de ma vie je n'ai pas mangé de.
I heb nooit van mijn leven fazant gegeten.

I never in my life ate pheasant.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Qwynegold »

私のストックホルムのアパートの隣にはインド料理のレストランがある。美味しくて味がいっぱいあるよ。でもレストランはよくできないらしい。この通り以外住んでいる人々が来ないから。通りが不評で人々が恐れるらしいんだ。
Watashi no Sutokkuhorumu no apaato no tonari ni wa Indo-ryōri no resutoran ga aru. Oishikute aji ga ippai aru yo. Demo resutoran wa yoku dekinai rashii. Kono tōri igai sunde iru hitobito ga konai kara. Tōri ga fuhyō de hitobito ga osoreru rashiin da.
There's an Indian restaurant next to my Stockholm apartment. It's good and flavorful. But the restaurant doesn't seem to do well. People not living on the street don't come there because they're afraid, as the street has a bad reputation.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by finlay »

hwhatting wrote:
jal wrote:Wirklich? Wenn ich die Karte anschaue, sehe ich, dass es im Norden an Brüssel anliegt*1), aber im Süden gibt's nur flämische Gemeinden, oder?
Really? When I look at the map, I see that in the North it touches Brussels, but in the South there's just Flemmish municipalities*?
*1) I'd prefer dass es Brüssel im Norden berührt.
Nigdy w życiu nie jadłem bażanta.
Jamais de ma vie je n'ai pas mangé de.
I heb nooit van mijn leven fazant gegeten.

I never in my life ate pheasant.
Don't quote me on this, but I think it should be «je n'en ai jamais mangé»

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Viktor77
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

finlay wrote:
hwhatting wrote:
jal wrote:Wirklich? Wenn ich die Karte anschaue, sehe ich, dass es im Norden an Brüssel anliegt*1), aber im Süden gibt's nur flämische Gemeinden, oder?
Really? When I look at the map, I see that in the North it touches Brussels, but in the South there's just Flemmish municipalities*?
*1) I'd prefer dass es Brüssel im Norden berührt.
Nigdy w życiu nie jadłem bażanta.
Jamais de ma vie je n'ai pas mangé de.
I heb nooit van mijn leven fazant gegeten.

I never in my life ate pheasant.
Don't quote me on this, but I think it should be «je n'en ai jamais mangé»
It needs to be

Je n'ai jamais mangé de faisan de ma vie. Or De toute ma vie, je n'ai jamais mangé de faisan.

And in the English I'd personally use the perfect, I've never eaten pheasant in my life. Or I've never in my life eaten pheasant.

Waarom rooken zoveel mensen in Europe, vooral jongen? De tabaksondernemingen moeten van Europeanen houden.

Why do some many people smoke in Europe, especially young people? The tobacco companies must love Europeans.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Viktor77 wrote:Waarom roken zoveel mensen in Europa, vooral jongeren? De tabaksfabrikanten* moeten gek zijn op Europeanen**.
*Yes, they don't actually manufactor tobacco, but that's what they're called in Dutch
**"X moeten van Y houden" is used when X does something favourable to Y, not the reverse.

In den Niederlanden gibt es nicht so viele raucher als zB. in Frankreich (und vielleicht Belgien).
In the Netherlands there are not that many smokers compared to e.g. France (and perhaps Belgium).


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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Viktor77 wrote:Waarom rooken zoveel mensen in Europe, vooral jongen? De tabaksondernemingen moeten van Europeanen houden.

Why do some many people smoke in Europe, especially young people? The tobacco companies must love Europeans.
Probablement. Quand j'ai posé ce question à une médecine, elle m'a répondu que c'est une symbole d'être "cool". Aussi, au Grand-Duché, les cigarettes ne sont pas trop chères (mais elles restent assez plus chères qu'en Caroline du Nord !) et les jeunes peuvent fumer à partir de 16 ans...
Probably. When I asked a doctor, she told me that it's a symbol of being "cool". Also, in the Grand Duchy, cigarettes aren't very expensive (but they're still quite a bit more expensive than in NC!) and kids can start smoking from 16...
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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vampireshark wrote:Probablement. Quand j'ai posé cette question à une* médecine, elle m'a répondu que c'est une symbole d'être "cool". Aussi, au Grand-Duché, les cigarettes ne sont pas trop chères (mais elles restent plus assez plus chères qu'en Caroline du Nord !) et les jeunes peuvent fumer à partir de 16 ans...
Probably. When I asked a doctor, she told me that it's a symbol of being "cool". Also, in the Grand Duchy, cigarettes aren't very expensive (but they're still quite a bit more expensive than in NC!) and kids can start smoking from 16...
*This depends on how much you want to follow the Académie's desires. Une médecin is fine, but don't say it at the Académie hehe. BTW médecine is not used because it's the word for the field of medicine.

Ik denk dat je daarin gelijk hebt. Het is nog cool in Europa, meer dan in de VS in ieder geval (alhoewel weet ik niet waarom) en het is meet gecontroleerd in de VS dan in Europa.

Mijn onderzoek vordeert wel. Vandaag heb ik 8 mensen geïnterviewd. Ik heb ook mijn vlucht vier dagen naar voren gebracht, dus ik kom terug deze donderdag. Ik wil thuis zijn en ik heb zo veel dat ik terug in de VS moet doen. Echter, word ik voor 3 uren met Delta in wacht aan de telefoon geplaatst! Ten slotte belde ik op Singapore en ik kreeg iemand in één minute! Dus N.B. als je iemand aan Delta moet opbellen, bel Singapore op. :P


I think you're right there. It's still cool in Europe, more than in the US at any rate (I don't why though) and it's more controlled in the US than in Europe.

My research is progressing well. Today I interviewed 8 people. I also advanced my flight by four days, so I come back thus Thursday. I want to be home and I have so much to do back in the US. However, I was on hold on the phone with Delta for 3 hours! Finally I called Singapore and I got through to someone in a minute! So N.B. if you have to call someone at Delta, call Singapore.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:In den Niederlanden gibt es nicht so viele raucher als zB. in Frankreich (und vielleicht Belgien).
In the Netherlands there are not that many smokers compared to e.g. France (and perhaps Belgium).
Nie palę.
Je ne fume pas.
No fumo.
Non fumo.
Ik rook niet.
Ben sigara içmem.

I don't smoke.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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jal wrote:In den Niederlanden gibt es nicht so viele Raucher als zB. in Frankreich (und vielleicht Belgien).
In the Netherlands there are not that many smokers compared to e.g. France (and perhaps Belgium).
Muss ich jetzt meine eigenen Fehler korrigieren? :)
Do I have to correct my own errors now? :)
Ik rook niet.
Ich auch nicht. Niemals getan.
Me neither. Never did.


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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Viktor77 wrote:Ik denk dat je daarin gelijk hebt. Het is nog cool in Europa, meer dan in de VS in ieder geval (alhoewel ik niet weet waarom) en het is meer gecontroleerd* in de VS dan in Europa.
Though "controleren" in de sense of "to control" is kreeping into everyday speech, it's still considered an anglicism to avoid, especially because differentiation in context is difficult. In this case "reguleren" is I thing the best translation, as we're talking about government regulations. So "meer gereguleerd".
Mijn onderzoek vordert goed. Vandaag heb ik acht mensen geïnterviewd. Ik heb ook* mijn vlucht vier dagen naar voren gebracht**, dus ik kom deze donderdag terug. Ik wil thuis zijn en ik heb zo veel dat ik terug*** in de VS moet doen. Ik hing echter drie uur met Delta in de wacht aan de telefoon geplaatst^! Ten slotte^^ belde ik naar Singapore en ik kreeg iemand in één minuut! Dus N.B.^^^ als je iemand van Delta moet hebben+, bel naar Singapore. :P
*The somewhat formal "tevens" could be in this position, but I'd move "ook" to after "vlucht" ("Ik heb mijn vlucht ook ...").
**Not idiomatic. I'd say like "vier dagen vervroegd".
***I don't think there's a way to properly translate the "back" of the original English in this case. If you mean "when I'm back" you'd just add "als ik terug ben", but "back in the US" as in "the US, where I came from", I wouldn't know how to translate.
^"in de wacht hangen" is a somewhat colloquial set expression. It's clear that a telephone is meant. Also, you can't really head a sentence with "echter" the way you can with "however" in English.
^^I'd use "uiteindelijk". For me, "ten slotte" is more of a concluding by external force kinda thing, rather than something you initiate yourself. But "ten slotte" isn't really wrong either.
^^^I don't think this is possible in Dutch.
+"iemand moeten hebben van ..." is a set expression, also rather colloquial.

Ich habe schone hier oben etwas in einer Fremdsprache gesagt.
I have already said something in a foreign language above.


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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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Bedankt, Jal.

Aujourd'hui j'ai trouvé en quelque sorte la clé de ma recherche! Je suis allé à la commune de la commune que j'étudie, het Gemeentehuis van Sint-Pieters-Leeuw pour faire de la recherche clandestine. Je faisais semblant d'être un américain qui s'intéressait aux réfugies et immigrés en Europe qui cherchait des paquets d'accueil pour les nouveaux immigrés (en fait c'était la recherche d'un de mes professeurs). Mais voilà quand je suis entré dans la commune ils ont refusé de parler anglais avec moi! Ils refusent le français, ça c'est pourquoi j'y suis venu, mais de refuser l'anglais aussi!? Même à Liège si j'avais eu besoin d'anglais ils m'auraient parlé en anglais. Ils m'ont dit que je pouvais parler en français ou en anglais mais ils ne peuvent répondre qu'en néerlandais. Il y avait même des affiches partout en français, en anglais et en allemand qui disaient "toute communication se fait en néerlandais" ou "bienvenue dans votre commune flamande" ou "exercez votre néerlandais avec nous ou ammenez un interprète" (bien qu'ils parlent bien le français et l'anglais). Ces affiches ont également exprimé l'importance de parler néerlandais dans la commune dans une manière plutôt condescendante. Voilà donc même moi un américain j'étais gêné. Mais c'était fascinant de voir des attitudes sociolinguistiques si flagrantes!


Today I sort of found the key to my research! I went to the municipal building for the municipality I study, het Gemeentehuis van Sint-Pieters-Leeuw to do some undercover research. I pretended to be an American interested in refuges and immigrants in Europe who was looking for welcome packets for new immigrants (this was actually the research of one of my professors). But when I entered the municipal building they refused to speak English with me! They refuse French, that's why I came here, but to also refuse English? Even in Liège if I had needed English they would've spoken to me in English. They told me that I can speak in French or in English but they can only respond in Dutch. There were even posters everywhere in French, in English, and in German that said "all communication is to be done in Dutch" or "welcome to your Flemish commune" or "practice your Dutch with us or bring an interpreter" (even though they speak French and English just fine). These posters also expressed the importance of speaking Dutch in the municipality in a rather patronizing manner. So even as an American I was embarrassed. But it was fascinating to see such blatant sociolinguistic attitudes!
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:
jal wrote:In den Niederlanden gibt es nicht so viele Raucher wie zB. in Frankreich (und vielleicht Belgien).
In the Netherlands there are not that many smokers compared to e.g. France (and perhaps Belgium).
Muss ich jetzt meine eigenen Fehler korrigieren? :)
Do I have to correct my own errors now? :)
Przepraszam! Myślałem, że to już zrobiłem. Znalazłem jeszcze jeden błąd.
Excuse-moi! Je pensais que je l'aurais dejà fait. J'ai trouvé encore une faute.
Sorry! Ik dacht, dat ik dat al gedaan had. Ik heb nog een fout gevonden.

Sorry! I thought I'd done that already. I've found one more mistake.

EDIT - I overlooked this:
jal wrote:Ich habe schone weiter oben etwas in einer Fremdsprache gesagt.
I have already said something in a foreign language above.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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hwhatting wrote:Sorry! Ik dacht, dat ik dat al gedaan had. Ik heb nog een fout gevonden.
Danke! Ich hätte natürlich nicht gemeint, dass du wirklich verplichtet bist meine Fehler zu korrigieren :)
Thanks! I didn't really mean of course that you're really obligated to correct my errors :).
jal wrote:But when I entered the municipal building they refused to speak English with me!
Das ist wirklich lächerlich! Die Belgen sind richtig gestört...
That's really ridiculous! The Belgians are completely mad...

EDIT: verrückt was of course the word I was looking for... Verrückte Belgen...


JAL
Last edited by jal on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

Viktor77 wrote:Waarom rooken zoveel mensen in Europe, vooral jongen? De tabaksondernemingen moeten van Europeanen houden.

Why do some many people smoke in Europe, especially young people? The tobacco companies must love Europeans.
Ну, как vampireshark сказал, это cool. Когда мой друг со (начальной!) школы начал курить, когда ему было 12, может быть 13 лет, много девушек стало пытаться привлечь его, даже моя самая лучшая подруга, самая умная девушка в моей школе. Я не знаю как, но у него скоро была одна девушка, только потому что он стал курить. Он тоже приобрёл почтение некоторых мальчиков, особенно с паралельных классов. Этого не объяснишь.
Well, as vampireshark said, it is cool. As my (primary!) school friend started smoking at the age of 12, maybe 13, many girls starting trying to attract him, even my best friend, the most clever girl in my school. Dunno how, but he soon had his first serious girlfriend, just because he began to smoke. Also, he gained respect of some boys, especially from parallel classes. It is unexplainable.
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

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jal wrote:
jal wrote:But when I entered the municipal building they refused to speak English with me!
Das ist wirklich lächerlich! Die Belgen sind richtig gestört...
That's really ridiculous! The Belgians are completely mad...

EDIT: verrückt was of course the word I was looking for... Verrückte Belgen...

Toch! De Belgen zijn echt gek. Maar er is geen plek als België, vooral Brussel. Waar anders kun je de trein voor 's Gravenbrakel instappen en dan uitstappen in Braine-le-Comte. :P

Tout à fait! Les Belges sont vraiment fous. Mais on n'est nulle part mieux qu'en Belgique, surtout à Bruxelles. À quel autre endroit peux-tu monter le train pour 's Gravenbrakel et puis en descender à Braine-le-Comte. :P


Right! Belgium is truly crazy. But there is no place like Belgium, especially Brussels. Where else can you broad the train for 's Gravenbrakel and then get off the train at Braine-le-Comte. :P
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

Viktor77 wrote:
jal wrote:
jal wrote:But when I entered the municipal building they refused to speak English with me!
Das ist wirklich lächerlich! Die Belgen sind richtig gestört...
That's really ridiculous! The Belgians are completely mad...

EDIT: verrückt was of course the word I was looking for... Verrückte Belgen...

Toch! De Belgen zijn echt gek. Maar er is geen plek als België, vooral Brussel. Waar anders kun je de trein voor 's Gravenbrakel instappen en dan uitstappen in Braine-le-Comte. :P

Tout à fait! Les Belges sont vraiment fous. Mais on n'est nulle part mieux qu'en Belgique, surtout à Bruxelles. À quel autre endroit peux-tu monter le train pour 's Gravenbrakel et puis en descender à Braine-le-Comte. :P


Right! Belgium is truly crazy. But there is no place like Belgium, especially Brussels. Where else can you broad the train for 's Gravenbrakel and then get off the train at Braine-le-Comte. :P
Только в Лодзи в Польши улица Харцмастера Александра Каминского, польского национального активиста и учителя цензурированого правительством ПНР, может пересекать улицу Революции 1905 года. Давай поздравляем этот город!
Only in Łódź, Poland street of Scoutmaster Aleksander Kamiński, Polish national activist and teacher censored by government of PPR, can cross street of Revolution of 1905. Congratulations to this city!
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Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Viktor77 wrote:Inderdaad! De Belgen zijn echt gek*. Maar er is geen plek als** België, vooral Brussel. Waar anders kun je de trein naar 's Gravenbrakel pakken*** en dan uitstappen in Braine-le-Comte.
*Perhaps "gestoord" is more forceful here.
**This sounds a bit off, perhaps an anglicism. "zoals" would perhaps be better, but still... Perhaps rephrase with a different idiom, e.g. "Er gaat niets boven België" or the like.
***"de [means of transport] pakken naar ..." is a set (colloquial) expression. If you want to contrast "instappen" with "uitstappen", try "Waar anders kun je instappen in de trein naar X, en dan uitstappen in Y", but I don't like the "instappen in" with its two "in"s. To avoid that, say "... kun je in de trein naar X stappen en dan uitstappen in Y", but the contrast is a bit lost then.

Ich weiss richtig nicht was "'s Gravenbrakel" und "Braine-le-Comte" sind und warum das komisch ist...
I really don't know what "'sG" and "BlC" are and why it's funny...


JAL

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