Arabic lessons: Lesson 3

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tiramisu
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Arabic lessons: Lesson 3

Post by tiramisu »

Hello. I've been thinking about providing Arabic lessons here, but I'm not sure how much interest it will garner. Let me know -- I don't want to start them if nobody's going to use them.

They will focus on Fus7a (Modern Standard Arabic) and Egyptian Arabic -- both needed for proficiency. Because I find Fus7a much more logical, the focus will be primarily on Fus7a and Egyptian Arabic will be treated as a daughter language.

The goal of the lessons will be to maximize vocabulary acquisition. They will teach how to recognize both the root and the pattern of a word and use context to determine its meaning ان شاء الله. At the same time, it will be very difficult to meet this goal without proper grammatical instruction.

If you have any requests or ideas, let me know.

My question for you, if you're interested, is whether I should spend time at the beginning discussing phrasebook expressions like "How are you?" and "What's your name?" I will discuss greetings whether you like it or not, however, along with some other daily expressions that aren't quite found in English. :)
Last edited by tiramisu on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Arrobauth »

Hi! I'll be more than eager to grasp at this opportunity to learn Arabic. I'll appreciate it very much :D

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Post by tiramisu »

<b>Pronunciation</b>

I have long noticed a lack of good (or even decent) pronunciation guides for Arabic, so let me provide a guide while we wait to see if these lessons will actually happen.

<b>Script</b>
The Arabic script is very famous for its beauty, and has transformed over time for both beauty and facility -- though these transformations eventually separated and now everyday handwriting is its own style. The abjad derives from Aramaic, the lingua franca during the beginnings of Arabic. At this time, facility was the main driver of the development of the abjad.

Today, the most commonly used styles are the naskh نسخ and ruq3ah رقعة, and it is very common to find people using a mixture of both styles. Naskh is used in print; ruq3ah is most commonly taught for handwriting because it is slightly more natural for the hand.

Because it takes some time to get down -- my first Arabic teacher set aside 5 weeks to learn the abjad -- I do not want to make it necessary that you learn the abjad. Instead, I will provide both Arabic script and a form of internet romanization. Internet romanization is the system used in text messaging and internet communication by Arabs themselves. Because the most common internet romanization is difficult for someone unfamiliar with the Arabic script, I will use a more prescribed romanization and include all vowels. As the lessons progress, you will notice vowels disappearing. This is to train you to be able to read other Arabic speakers typing on the internet. With that, I would strongly recommend that you attempt to pick up the Arabic script over time, because the script is the easiest way to understand the language itself. (Please note also that Qur'anic Arabic should never be romanized in this way).

<b>Phonemes</b>

*Note that notes are for your reference, but you shouldn't frustrate yourself with them. They're not necessary to know for these lessons.

(Unfortunately, we will have to put up with poor formatting for now. So sorry! It'll help you greatly if you can write this into a chart for now.)
Script-Romanization-Fus7a Pronunciation-Egyptian Arabic Pron.-Notes
ء, أ, ؤ, ئ -n:2-[ʔ]-[ʔ]-ء only stands alone if the vowel before is a long vowel, otherwise it is attached to a seat that appears to be a long vowel; the seat is determined by the strongest short vowel before OR after the ء with /i/ being the strongest and /a/ being the weakest
ا-a-[æ:];[a:]-[a:];[æ:]-Though not always true, especially in Egyptian, [a] occurs only if the preceding consonant is uvular or pharyngeal
ب-b--
ت-t-[t]-[t]
ث-th-[θ]-[t]-Egyptians pronounce Fus7a's ث as [s] rather than [θ]
ج-j-[dʒ];[ʒ]-[g]-Egyptians use "g" in romanization
ح-n:7-[ħ]-[ħ]
خ-kh-[x]-[x]
د-d-[d]-[d]
ذ-z-[ð]-[z]
ر-r-[r]-[r]
ز-z-[z]-[z]
س-s-[s]-[s]
ش-sh-[ʃ]-[ʃ]
ص-s-[sˁ]-[sˁ]
ض-d-[dˁ]-[dˁ]
ط-t-[tˁ]-[tˁ]
ظ-n:6-[ðˁ]-[zˁ]
ع-n:3-[ʕ]-[ʕ]
غ-gh-[ɣ]-[ɣ]
ف-f-[f]-[f]
ق-q-[q]-[ʔ];[q]-In Egyptian, <q> is only occasionally and unpredictably [q]. The difference is noted in romanization, however, where [ʔ] is usually transcribed as <2>
ك-k-[k]-[k]
ل-l-[l]-[l]-In the word Allah, [l] becomes pharyngealized
لا-la-[læ]-[læ]
م-m-[m]-[m]
ن-n-[n]-[n]
ه-h-[h]-[h]
ة-ah-0;[t]-0;[t]-Always preceded by a short [a]; becomes [t] with any suffix and in certain grammatical structures
و-w;o-[w];[u:],[o:]-[w];[u:],[o:]-[o:] when following uvular and pharyngeal consonants
ي-y;e-[j];[i:]-[j];[i:]
ى-a-[a:]-[a:]-Indicates that ي is in the root, rather than ا

<b>Stress</b>
Stress is very natural in Fus7a. It is a little strange in Egyptian Arabic, but because it's almost the same and non-phonemic, we will treat it here with Fus7a stress.

1) No long vowels, no double consonants: third-to-last syllable (or, if the word is only two syllables long, the first syllable)
2) 1 long vowel, no double consonants: syllable with long vowel
3) 2 long vowels, no double consonants: last syllable with a long vowel
4) No long vowels, 1 double consonant: syllable preceding the double consonant
5) Long vowels and double consonants: last syllable with long vowel or double consonant

<b>Assimilation</b>
The [l] in the definite article al- becomes assimilated when the word begins with a dental or alveolar consonant. (I believe j is an exception to this rule, but most Arabic speakers do it anyway).
So الدراسة al-dirasah is [ad.di."ræ:.sa]. Note how the assimilation does not affect stress.
Last edited by tiramisu on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by darkworldsawake »

I'd definitely be interested, especially as regards the morphological system.

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Post by brandrinn »

bifaDliki, I will be happy to participate as well.
[quote="Nortaneous"]Is South Africa better off now than it was a few decades ago?[/quote]

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Post by AK-92 »

brandrinn wrote:bifaDliki, I will be happy to participate as well.
me too
ɑɬœø

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Post by tiramisu »

Lesson 1 -- Introduction

Since this lesson is memorization heavy, it will be relatively brief. Future lessons will contain exercises. Vocabulary from this lesson will be used in the next lesson as well.

In this brief lesson, we will learn about:
1) Basic greetings - مفردات (Vocabulary section)
2) Present tense - قواعد (Grammar section)
3) Questions - عامية (Spoken dialect section)

<b>مفردات/mufradât/[mu.fræ."dæ:t]</b>

Greetings in Arabic are somewhat complicated, and you must take several factors into consideration to determine which greeting to use.

a) اهلا وسهلا ahlan wa sahlan ["ʔæh.læn wa "sæh.læn]; ~"[Come] like family and with easy"
This greeting usually means "welcome." Often times it's shortened to اهلا ahlan, which is less formal. It can be used in a number of cases other than greetings as well, and often communicates "I have nothing more to say in this conversation, so let me welcome you!" Usually, this phrase is used by a host.
In response to a man, you say اهلا بيك ahlan bêk [bi:.k];
In response to a woman, اهلا بيكي ahlan bêkê ["bi:.ki];
A very formal response, or to a group of people, is اهلا بيكم ahlan bêkom ["bi:.kum]

b) السلام عليكم al-salâm 3alêkum [sæ."læ:.m ʕa."lɛi.kum]; ~"Peace be upon you"
This is the Muslim greeting, but it's one of the most common. Feel free to use it as a formal greeting whatever your religion, but note that Christians and other religious minorities typically don't use it. It can be pronounced a number of ways, and usually isn't fully pronounced. Above is the most common pronunciation. It's full pronunciation is [æs.sæ."læ:.mu ʕa."lɛi.kum] and it may also be pronounced [æs.sæ."læ:m ʕa."lɛi.kum].
To respond, say وعليكم سلام wa 3alêkum salam [wa ʕa."lɛi.kum sæ."læ:m]

c) سلام salâm; "Peace"
This can also be a greeting and is not religion-specific. Most often, it's employed to say "bye."

d) صباح الخير sabâ7 al-khêr [sˁa."ba:.ħ æl.xɛi.r]; "Good morning"
Used until noon.
Some other expressions that may be used in response:
صباح النور sabâ7 al-nôr [sˁa."ba:.ħ æn.nu:.r] "The morning of light"
صباح الورد sabâ7 al-ward [sˁa."ba:.ħ æl.wærd] "Morning of the rose"
صباح الفول sabâ7 al-fôl [sˁa."ba:.ħ æl.fu:.l] "Morning of fôl (beans)"
صياح الفلافل sabâ7 al-falâfal [sˁa."ba:.ħ æl-fæ."læ:.fæl] "Morning of falafel" (usually said for humor in response to سباح الفول sabâ7 al-fôl)

e) مساء الخير masâ2 al-khêr [mæ."sæ:.ʔ]; "Good evening"
Used after noon.
Response: مساء النور masâ2 al-nôr

f) تصبح على الخير tisba7 3la al-khêr [tisˁ.ba:ħ ʕal.xɛi.r]; ~"Have a good night"
To woman: تصبحي على الخير tisba7 3la al-khêr [tisˁ.ba:.ħi ʕal.xɛi.r]
This is heard in Egyptian Arabic rather than Fus7a.
Response to man: وانت من اهله wa inta min ahlo [wa "in.ta min "æh.lu] "You too from my family"
Response to a woman: وانتي من اهله wa inti min ahlo [wa "in.ti min "æh.lu] "You too from my family"

g) مع السلامة ma3a al-salâmah [ma.ʕa as.sæ."læ:.ma]; ~"[Go] with peace"

h) الله معك Allah ma3ak [alˁ."lˁa: ma.ʕak]; ~"May God be with you"
To woman: Allah ma3ik [alˁ."lˁa: ma.ʕik]

i) رمضان كريم Ramadan karêm [ra.mæ."dˁa:.n kæ.ri:.m] ~"May Ramadan be gracious to you"
or رمضان مبارك Ramadan mobârak [ra.mæ."dˁa:.n mu.bæ:.ræk] ~"May Ramadan be blessed for you"
Response: كل عام وانتم بخير kol 3âm wa intum bikhêr [kul ʕa:m wa "In.tum bi."xɛi.r] ~"May all your years be great"


Other important expressions:
Note that this is a very partial list of expressions. If you wish to expand on expressions like these, you should look into grabbing a phrasebook. You can also send me a private message with any question, or, if enough people so desire, I could kindly rip off the important parts of a phrasebook :)

a) كيف حالك kêfa 7âlak [kɛi:fa ħa:.læk] "how are you?"
To a woman: kêfa 7âlik

b) الحمدلله al-7amdullah [æl.ħam.dulˁ.lˁa:] "Praise God"; "Hallelujah"
One response to "How are you?" By itself, it means "I'm great," but is used also after any answer, including unfortunate answers.
This expression can be used in any situation of relief or excitement, as well.

c) انا مريض ana marêd [æ.na mæ.ri:.dˁ] "I'm sick"
Response: سلمتك salamtak [sæ."læm.tæk]
(To a woman: salamtik)
Response to response: الله يسلمك Allah yasallimak [alˁ."lˁa: jæ.sæl.li.mæk] "May God give you peace"
(To a woman: yasallimik)

d) ان شاء الله inshallah [ʔin ʃa:.ʔ alˁ."lˁa:] "If it's God's will"
Almost synonymous with "hopefully." Used much more often.

e) ما شاء الله mashallah [mæ ʃa:.ʔ alˁ."lˁa:] "Whatever is God's will"
Said after giving a compliment to remind oneself not to be covetous.

f) شكرا shokran [ʃuk.ran] "Thank you"
Response: عفوا
3afwan [ʕaf.wan]

h) اسمي ismi [is.mi] "my name is"

اتعرف على - I meet s.o.
ata3arref 3ala [ʔæ.tæ."ʕar.rif]
اتكلم - I speak
atakallem [ʔæ.tæ."kal.lim]
اعرف - I know
a3rif ["ʔaʕ.rif]
الاسلام - Islam
al-islâm [æl-ʔis."læ:.m]
احب - I like
o7ebb [ʔu."ħib:]
حاج - title of respect for an old man
7âj [ħa:dʒ:]
حبيبي - my friend; baby; boo
7abêbe [ħa."bi:.bi]
سلام - peace
salâm [sæ.læ.m]
سيارة - car
sayyârah [sæj.ja:.ra]
صباح - morning
sabâ7 [sæ.ba:.ħ]
ليلة - night
lêlah ["lɛi.la]
قمر - moon
qamr ["qam.r=]
ورد - rose
ward [wærd]
مساء - evening
masâ2 [mæ."sæ.ʔ]
مصر - Egypt
masr [misˁ.r=]
ههه - hahaha
hhh
يا - vocative particle
ya [jæ]
يوم - day
yôm [jo:.m]
اليوم - today
al-yôm [æl.jo:.m]

<b>قواعد/qawâ3id/[qa."wæ:.ʕid]</b>

Because there's so much to memorize in this lesson, I wish to just briefly introduce the present tense. We will work on it more in the next lesson, which will include exercises.

But since Arabic verbs don't work quite the same way as we're typically used to, we will henceforth refer to the present tense as المضارع al-modâre3 [æl.mu."dˁa:.ri.ʕa]. In fact, Arabic only has two generic tenses: perfect and imperfect. Al-modare3 is the imperfect tense and, when unmodified, refers to an incomplete action that begins in the present and extends into the future.

The following is the generic conjugation of verb stems, using the root ف-ع-ل f-3-l as the stem. For now, simply study the tense without memorizing. Do you recognize any patterns? For instance, what do you notice about plural verbs? Dual verbs? Feminine verbs?
Singular
1 أفعل [ʔæf.ʕal]
2af3al
2m تفعل [tæf.ʕal]
taf3al
2f تفعلين [tæf.ʕa.li:n]
taf3alên
3m يفعل [jæf.ʕal]
yaf3al
3f تفعل [tæf.ʕal]
taf3al

Plural
1 نفعل [[næf.ʕal]
naf3al
2m تفعلون [tæf.ʕa.lu:n]
taf3alôn
2f تفعلن [tæf.ʕal.na]
taf3alna
3m يفعلون [jæf.ʕa.lu:n]
yaf3alôn
3f يفعلن [jæf.ʕal.na]
yaf3alna

Dual
2 تفعلان [tæf.ʕa.læ:n]
taf3alân
3m يفعلان [jæf.ʕa.læ:n]
yaf3alân
3f تفعلان [tæf.ʕa.læ:n]
taf3alân

Other notes to keep in mind for the next lesson:
-Al-modare3 can be modified to begin in the past by using the perfect tense conjugation of "to be." For now, we will only do this with the 3rd person and treat the verb, كان kan [kæ:n], more like a particle.
-Al-modare3 can be modified to begin in the future by adding the prefix س s-. For example, ستفعل sataf3al [sæ.tæf.ʕal] means "you will do."

<b>قراءة/qirâ2ah/[qi."ra:.ʔa]/Reading Fus7a</b>
عمر: سلام عليكم يا حاج
الحاج: وعليكم سلام يا عمر. كيف حالك اليوم؟
عمر: الحمدلله. كيف حالك؟
الحاج: الحمدلله. صياح الخير يا مريم
مريم: صياح النور. احب السيارة يا حاج, ما شاء الله
الحاج: شكرا, الله يسلمك
مريم: مع السلامة
الحاج: مع السلامة
عمر: من هي؟
الحاج: هي مريم
عمر: ساتعرف علي مريم ان شاء الله
الحاج: هههه. ان شاء الله حبيبي

3omr: salam 3alekum ya 7aj
al-7aj: wa 3lekum salam. kefa 7alak al-yom?
3omr: al-7amdullah. kefa 7alak?
al-7aj: al-7amdullah. saba7 al-kher ya mariam
mariam: saba7 al-nor. o7ebb al-sayarah ya 7aj, mashallah
al-7aj: shokran, Allah yasallimik
mariam: ma3a al-salamah
al-7aj: ma3a al-salamah
3omr: man hiyya?
al-7aj: hiyya mariam
3omr: sa2ata3arrif 3la mariam inshallah
al-7aj: hhhh inshallah 7abebe

<b>3âmiyyah/عامية/[ʕa:.mi:.ja]</b>

We will begin this section each time with vocabulary from above that differs in Egyptian Arabic than from the Fus7a given before delving into other aspects. Following the new vocabulary, the reading above will be translated at least partially into Egyptian Arabic. The section will usually conclude with a dialogue.

عربية - car
3arabiyya [ʕa.ræ.bi:.ja]
قمر - moon
2amr ["ʔam.r=]
مسا - evening
misâ [mi."sæ]
مصر - Egypt
masr [masˁ.r=]
عيان - sick
3ayyân [3aj.jæ:.n]
النهارده - today
il-nahârdah [in.næ."hæ:.r.da]

عمر: سلام عليكم يا حاج
الحاج: وعليكم سلام عمر. ازيك النهارده؟
عمر: الحمدلله. ازيك؟
الحاج: الحمدلله. صياح الخير مريم
مريم: صياح النور. باحب السيارة يا حاج, ما شا الله
الحاج: شكرا, الله يسلمك
مريم: مع السلامة
الحاج: مع السلامة
عمر: مين هي؟
الحاج: هي مريم
عمر: حاتعرف علي مريم ان شا الله
الحاج: هههه. ان شا الله حبيبي

3omr: salam 3alekum ya 7aj
al-7aj: wa 3lekum salam 3omr. izayyak il-nahardah?
3omr: al-7amdullah. izayyak?
al-7aj: al-7amdullah. saba7 al-kher mariam
mariam: saba7 al-nor. bo7ebb al-sayarah ya 7aj, mashallah
al-7aj: shokran, Allah yasallimik
mariam: ma3a al-salamah
al-7aj: ma3a al-salamah
3omr: man hiyya?
al-7aj: hiyya mariam
3omr: 7âta3arrif 3la mariam inshallah
al-7aj: hhhh inshallah 7abebe

In this lesson, we will discuss questions in both fus7a and Egyptian Arabic.
In fus7a, a question is formed with a question particle هل hal [hæl], which is placed at the beginning of a sentence.
In Egyptian, questions are distinguished by intonation alone.

The following are question words in fus7a:
who? من؟ man? [mæn]
what? ما؟ ma? [mæ] - used if there is no verb in the sentence
ماذا؟ mâza? ["mæ:.ða] - used if there is a verb in the sentence
when? متي؟ mata? [mæ.ta]
where? اين؟ ayna? [ʔaj.na]
why? لماذا؟ limâza? [li."mæ:.ða]
how? كيف؟ kêfa? [kɛi:.fa]

The following are question words in Egyptian -- most of which are distinctive for this dialect:
who? مين؟ mên? [mi:n]
what? ايه؟ ay? [ɛj]
when? امتى؟ imta? [im.tæ]
where? فين؟ fên? [fɛi.n]
why? ليه؟ lay? [lɛj]
how? ازي؟ izayy? [ʔi.zaj:]
Last edited by tiramisu on Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Silk »

Nice work, Zeikan. These lessons are better than you'd see in a lot of Arabic textbooks. I also appreciate that you added rules for stress in Arabic, because that was never explained to me. Anyway, I'd like to add a few things if you don't mind.

Following uvular and pharyngealized consonants, alif is realized as the back vowel [ɑ:], not [a:] (which phonetically is very close to [æ:]). Alif is also pronounced this way if it follows raa'.

In a few places you mix up the colloquial pronunciation with the fus7a.
For example, in fus7a, the proper pronunciation of كيف حالك is [kæj.fæ ħæ:.lu.kæ] or [kæj.fæ ħæ:.lu.ki].

Also, معك:
Fus7a: [mæ.ʕæ.kæ] / [mæ.ʕæ.ki]
Egyptian: [mæ.ʕæk] / [mæ.ʕik]

And in fus7a, لماذا should have a ð.

But these are very minor things and one can be understood in Arabic without paying attention to what I mentioned. I just wanted to put this out there for those who were curious.

There's also another humorous greeting, saba7 az-zift (literally "morning of the asphalt", where "asphalt" is used to refer to something that sucks.) This greeting is used if you're not in a great mood. It's very informal though, so you should avoid it if you're in a professional environment or if you just met the person.

Anyway, I hope you continue with these lessons, because I'll be following along too.

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Post by tiramisu »

Silk wrote:Nice work, Zeikan. These lessons are better than you'd see in a lot of Arabic textbooks.
Thanks.
Also, معك:
Fus7a: [mæ.ʕæ.kæ] / [mæ.ʕæ.ki]
Egyptian: [mæ.ʕæk] / [mæ.ʕik]
Not quite. You're right that [mæ.ʕæ.kæ] / [mæ.ʕæ.ki] are proper Fus7a, but [mæ.ʕæk] / [mæ.ʕik] are also acceptable. The former are akin to اعراب while the latter are fus7a without اعراب. And in fact, the pronunciation is different in Egyptian Arabic, in which they are respectively [mæ."ʕæ:.k] and [mæ."ʕæ:.ki]
And in fus7a, لماذا should have a ð.
Thanks for pointing this out, and please point it out to me in the future. I expect I'll make this mistake often, because I'm used to native speakers pronouncing it [z] even though that's wrong.

Also, for those of you who have already gone through lesson 1, I will be adding greetings for Ramadan. How foolish of me to forget to do so during Ramadan!
Last edited by tiramisu on Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Silk »

Zeikan wrote:
Silk wrote: Also, معك:
Fus7a: [mæ.ʕæ.kæ] / [mæ.ʕæ.ki]
Egyptian: [mæ.ʕæk] / [mæ.ʕik]
Not quite. You're right that [mæ.ʕæ.kæ] / [mæ.ʕæ.ki] are proper Fus7a, but [mæ.ʕæk] / [mæ.ʕik] are also acceptable. The former are akin to اعراب while the latter are fus7a without اعراب
The short vowel before the kaaf doesn't change in fus7a though.
If you have -æk and -ik endings instead of -kæ and -ki, you are getting into dialect.

I've seen variants of fus7a without اعراب, but the possessive/object pronoun endings tend to stay intact. Take "your name", ismukæ / ismuki. If you decide to delete the final vowels as اعراب, then you get ismuk for both. You might see something like ismak or ismik in a dialect, but I haven't seen any rules in fus7a where the short vowel before the kaaf changes according to gender - it's always the vowel after the kaaf.

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Post by tiramisu »

-ak and -ik are actually acceptable fus7a and can replace the remainders of اعراب such as the -u- in ismuk

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Post by Nesescosac »

I heartily thank you, Zeikan, for this.
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
What kind of cookie?
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/

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Silk
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Post by Silk »

Zeikan wrote:-ak and -ik are actually acceptable fus7a and can replace the remainders of اعراب such as the -u- in ismuk
All right, fair enough. It's just that I've never seen this before.

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Post by 캉탁 »

Silk wrote:
Zeikan wrote:-ak and -ik are actually acceptable fus7a and can replace the remainders of اعراب such as the -u- in ismuk
All right, fair enough. It's just that I've never seen this before.
Oh snap, it exists without you having seen it!!

<hr>

@ Zeikan,

I like what you have here, I would love to participate/learn along with everyone else. I have experience with fuṣḥā, but most of my time has been learning/using shami.
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Post by Niedokonany »

Zeikan wrote: شكرا
Hindi शुक्रिया: coincidence or loan?
Silk wrote:saba7 az-zift
Seems like this is going to get stuck in my head the longest of this thread :| Though I like some of the other expressions very much, too, literally they sound very poetic to a European.
Zeikan wrote: عربية
What's so exclusively Arabic about a car?
Al-modare3 can be modified to begin in the past by using the perfect tense conjugation of "to be."
Looking forward to finding out how exactly this is used.
uciekajcie od światów konających

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Post by Silk »

Piotr wrote:Hindi शुक्रिया: coincidence or loan?
It's a loan. It's actually used more often by Muslims and Urdu-speakers, since the pure Hindi variant is धन्यवाद.
Piotr wrote:What's so exclusively Arabic about a car?
It comes from 3araba, a cart or wagon.
It's actually a loan from Turkish araba, which refers to carts/carriages used in Turkey.
It's only coincidental that it shares the same root as the word for "Arab."

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Post by 캉탁 »

Silk wrote:
Piotr wrote:Hindi शुक्रिया: coincidence or loan?
It's a loan. It's actually used more often by Muslims and Urdu-speakers, since the pure Hindi variant is धन्यवाद.
It's actually a loan through Farsi شکریه.
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Post by tiramisu »

Silk wrote:
Piotr wrote:What's so exclusively Arabic about a car?
It comes from 3araba, a cart or wagon.
It's actually a loan from Turkish araba, which refers to carts/carriages used in Turkey.
It's only coincidental that it shares the same root as the word for "Arab."
It's actually from Arabic. I've also heard it's from Turkish, though, so I'd be willing to accept it was loaned from Turkish who loaned it from Arabic.

The root for عربية or 3arabiyya is 3araba عرب which was most likely metathesised from 3abara عبر which basically means to traverse. 3araba عرب seems to be more specialized to refer to desert travelling, but it's unattested. You can probably understand why desert nomads and cars uncoincidentally came from the same root.

Fun fact: notice that the word for Hebrew is 3ibrî عبري! Yes, the words for Arab and Hebrew came from the same root.

Sorry the second lesson is taking so long. I'm working on it as we speak, but I might not have it finished until tomorrow. After you see it, let me know whether you think I should split up each lesson into two, or if you'd like to wait a little bit longer for each lesson. (Fus7a would be the first lesson; 3amiyya would be the second).

EDIT: Yup, the second lesson won't be up until tomorrow. Sorry! Hopefully it's worth the wait.
Last edited by tiramisu on Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Silk »

Zeikan wrote:
Silk wrote:
Piotr wrote:What's so exclusively Arabic about a car?
It comes from 3araba, a cart or wagon.
It's actually a loan from Turkish araba, which refers to carts/carriages used in Turkey.
It's only coincidental that it shares the same root as the word for "Arab."
It's actually from Arabic. I've also heard it's from Turkish, though, so I'd be willing to accept it was loaned from Turkish who loaned it from Arabic.

The root for عربية or 3arabiyya is 3araba عرب which was most likely metathesised from 3abara عبر which basically means to traverse. 3araba عرب seems to be more specialized to refer to desert travelling, but it's unattested. You can probably understand why desert nomads and cars uncoincidentally came from the same root.

Fun fact: notice that the word for Hebrew is 3ibrî عبري! Yes, the words for Arab and Hebrew came from the same root.

Sorry the second lesson is taking so long. I'm working on it as we speak, but I might not have it finished until tomorrow. After you see it, let me know whether you think I should split up each lesson into two, or if you'd like to wait a little bit longer for each lesson. (Fus7a would be the first lesson; 3amiyya would be the second).
Yeah, I had heard about the metathesis of 3-b-r. I never actually made the connection between the roots for Arabic and Hebrew though, so thanks for pointing that out.

I initially didn't think that the traversing/travelling would be related to "araba" simply because those types of carts were marked more by their use in Turkey than in the Arab world. But from your posts it looks like you're more well-versed in Arabic etymology than I am, so I'll take your word for it.

Looking forward to seeing the second lesson!

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Post by Arzena »

Silk wrote:
Zeikan wrote:-ak and -ik are actually acceptable fus7a and can replace the remainders of اعراب such as the -u- in ismuk
All right, fair enough. It's just that I've never seen this before.
I heard both ismuk and ismuka/i used in my MSA class.

Fun Fact!
Doesn't happen in Moroccan Arabic, it's just -(u)k for both genders. Example with smi 'name'.

Ma smituk?
Smiti [___]
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Post by Amuere »

I'm hopping aboard to learn Arabic, I've been meaning to learn it for quite awhile now! :D
Tjalehu ge frulehu, tjea ale stjindamihu? Dime sfraiaknanmi.

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Post by 캉탁 »

I think lesson 2 should delve a little deeper into verbs.

Just a thought.
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Post by tiramisu »

Lesson 2 goes only slightly deeper. The focus of these lessons is really to allow you to soak up the language as easy as possible. With Arabic, whose grammar is actually easy and natural in my opinion, you need to work on vocabulary building rather than on providing a grammar.

Also, verbs work differently in Egyptian Arabic, so I need to be able to talk about that without making the lesson overwhelming.

Likewise, in the future it'll be easier to go deeper into these things because you'll have a better foundation. For example, in the next lesson I have to talk about the gerund and gender in the grammar section as well, and I wanted to talk about pronouns too. In future lessons, it won't be necessary to go off on margins.



Also, to all: if you would like to know any particular word, let me know (probably in private message to avoid spamming) and I'll incorporate it into the vocab

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Post by Cathbad »

Arzena wrote: I heard both ismuk and ismuka/i used in my MSA class.
IME, nobody would ever say -uka/-uki in MSA. Most of our professors and tutors said it sounds extremely stilted, as does, actually, pronouncing most case endings outside the context of initial alif swallowing, etc.

Kudos for the lessons! :D I really agree with what you say about the grammar: I'd say I know about 90% of the morphology, but the real trick with Arabic is getting to know the vast vocabulary. I haven't been studying Arabic for a year and a half and most of it has already slipped from my mind :( I guess I have to start watching BBC Arabic again...

And also, it would be great to see some more emphasis on 3amiyya forms; I'm personally more interested in khaliiji due to possible career prospects, but I'd love to know more about misriyya as well. Maybe you should consider making a different thread for that, since fus7a is effectively a different language - maybe not as much as Latin and Italian, but pretty close to that nevertheless!

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Post by 캉탁 »

Zeikan wrote:Also, to all: if you would like to know any particular word, let me know (probably in private message to avoid spamming) and I'll incorporate it into the vocab
A suggestion; perhaps make the vocab installments go along a thematic trend, similar to a travel phrasebook, but in this case it would be heavier on the linguistics rather than getting your bread with extra butter...etc.
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