The Innovative Usage Thread

[KathTheDragon]

Ah well, I think you could say that firemen are deployed.

[Zaarin]

Ah well, I think you could say that firemen are deployed.

Probably, but I still don't understand the analogy by which it means "unemployed."

[hwhatting]

Probably, but I still don't understand the analogy by which it means "unemployed."

Analysing employ as em- + ploy (like enlarge, embiggen), and deploy as the opposite. Depending on how people pronounce em- , it may also have been influenced by pairs like increase - decrease.

[Zaarin]

Probably, but I still don't understand the analogy by which it means "unemployed."

Analysing employ as em- + ploy (like enlarge, embiggen), and deploy as the opposite. Depending on how people pronounce em- , it may also have been influenced by pairs like increase - decrease.

Hmm. I suppose I can understand the analysis, except that unemployed is a pretty common word.

[Vijay]

Maybe they thought it was a synonym for unemployed? Idk.

[linguoboy]

Probably, but I still don't understand the analogy by which it means "unemployed."

Analysing employ as em- + ploy (like enlarge, embiggen), and deploy as the opposite. Depending on how people pronounce em- , it may also have been influenced by pairs like increase - decrease.

Thanks for this. I was completely flummoxed.

[hwhatting]

Hmm. I suppose I can understand the analysis, except that unemployed is a pretty common word.

Yes, it is. But my take on the usage posted by Sglod was that it was not used as a synonym for "unemployed" (= a state), but as synonym for "fired" or "laid off" (= a process / action):

I heard someone say their dad got deployed today. I though he meant his dad was in the army or police or something and was being sent off to some sort of war or incident, but he actually meant he'd lost his job.

Of course, "lay off" or "fire" are also common expressions, but perhaps the speaker was looking for a more refined term.

[linguoboy]

If they'd coined "disemployed", it would've been readily comprehensible to me. This is more on a par with spontaneously deciding "distress" means "disinterest" and using it that way.

I know I've asked before, but do any of y'all use "any" to qualify adjectives other than "good"? The other day I found myself again saying of a stranger, "I wonder if he's any cute".

[Viktor77]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

[Vijay]

I know I've asked before, but do any of y'all use "any" to qualify adjectives other than "good"? The other day I found myself again saying of a stranger, "I wonder if he's any cute".

Only comparative adjectives AFAIK

[Zaarin]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

[Sumelic]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

I don't remember ever using "forwent," but it sounds OK to me. A similar word, "gainsaid," sounds odd to me.

[Viktor77]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

I don't remember ever using "forwent," but it sounds OK to me. A similar word, "gainsaid," sounds odd to me.

Zaarin's experiences were also reflected in several online stories about "forwent," and my own experience.

I don't think I've ever used the word "gainsay" so the simple past form is pretty much alien to me.

[Zaarin]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

I don't remember ever using "forwent," but it sounds OK to me. A similar word, "gainsaid," sounds odd to me.

Oddly, "gainsaid" looks fine to me in print but sounds horrible when I say it aloud.

[Pole, the]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

How about "forgone"?

Would it make sense to replace "forwent" with applicable forms using "forgone" ("maintenance was forgone by the owners" or "the owners had forgone maintenance" or other)?

[Zaarin]

Has anyone here ever used "forwent" in speech, the simple past of to forgo? I'm not really interested in the forwent vs. forgoed debate nor the forego vs. forgo debate, just the use of "forwent." I found myself using it in a message where I wrote: "when the owners forwent regular maintenance...." The Internet has since shown there's a lively debate about whether one should avoid this form as it sounds stilted (which admittedly it does). So have you ever used it or do you just find a way to phrase your thoughts otherwise and avoid this stilted simple past form?

I used "forwent" in speaking a few weeks ago, and I was struck by the fact that I had never had occasion to use it before and wasn't even entirely certain that it was the past tense of forgo.

How about "forgone"?

Would it make sense to replace "forwent" with applicable forms using "forgone" ("maintenance was forgone by the owners" or "the owners had forgone maintenance" or other)?

Isn't "forgone" past participle/past perfect? According to Wiktionary, "forwent" is the simple past of "forgo." I mean, yes, you could rephrase your sentence to call for a past participle, but...

[Pole, the]

Isn't "forgone" past participle/past perfect? According to Wiktionary, "forwent" is the simple past of "forgo." I mean, yes, you could rephrase your sentence to call for a past participle, but...

But what. Is it more recognizable than "forwent" or less?

[Zaarin]

Isn't "forgone" past participle/past perfect? According to Wiktionary, "forwent" is the simple past of "forgo." I mean, yes, you could rephrase your sentence to call for a past participle, but...

But what. Is it more recognizable than "forwent" or less?

Yes, it's more recognizable than "forwent" (probably largely thanks to the stock phrase, "forgone conclusion"), but there are cases where it's more desirable to use simple past than to use a passive or perfective construction.

[Viktor77]

"Forgone" is more recognizable and probably a better phrasing overall.

Just to be a pedantic asshole it's "foregone conclusion" from "to forego" meaning to come before.

[Buran]

Has anybody encountered a native English speaker who has st > s / _#? E.g. My cousin consistently says [tʰejsɨz] for "tastes" (meaning that "taste" is for him underlyingly /tejs/; c.f. [kɪsɨz] "kisses"), and [fɪs] for "fist". He is also a native speaker of Cantonese, as are his sisters, but they do not have this sound change. All of them are in their early to mid 30s and were born and raised in North America.

[linguoboy]

Not consistently. The working-class Chicago natives who rebuilt our roof had joices for joists, but I don't recall noticing that all coda /st/ clusters were simplified in this way.

[Travis B.]

My dialect normally deletes final /t/ after /s/ except when broken by a morpheme boundary (i.e. when the /t/ is from -ed) except in careful speech. It also normally deletes final /d/ after /l/ and /n/ sometimes even when broken by a morpheme boundary (e.g. [tʰoːʊ] for told) except in careful speech. It also often deletes final /k/ after /s/ as well (e.g. [ɛs] for ask and [mɛs] for mask.) (Note that this does not describe my own speech, because I tend to hypercorrectly reintroduce [t] in words with orthographic -t or -d except when speaking in a lower register.)

[Viktor77]

At times I've heard it and done it myself, but only in fast informal speech. I think this may be the reason many people confuse "worst" and "worse" in writing because they often say "this is the [wE`s] day of my life."

[Travis B.]

Yeah, in my dialect worse and worst are homophones except in careful speech.

[Travis B.]

Note that I myself do not "correct" just and most, and assumed that everyone pronounced them without the /t/.