The Innovative Usage Thread
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
That's fascinating! Thanks for that tidbit of information.
My husband is so weird. He for some reason has the pin/pen merger in very scattered situations, ie. it's like he has half of the merger. And he often writes 'simi' for 'semi' by mistake because of it.
My husband is so weird. He for some reason has the pin/pen merger in very scattered situations, ie. it's like he has half of the merger. And he often writes 'simi' for 'semi' by mistake because of it.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
My husband has the pin/pen merge in a single word ("stent") because he learned it from me.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Pretty sure that's the same way my husband acquired it. His father has the merger in a lot of words like 'Wisconsin' and 'semi', etc. whereas his mother doesn't and so he must've picked up on his dad's dialect. But his dad's dialect is completely weird. He doesn't come from anywhere else and yet he somehow has a dialect all his own.linguoboy wrote:My husband has the pin/pen merge in a single word ("stent") because he learned it from me.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
As I have noted before here, I do this a lot when I'm not trying to speak relatively formally. I don't say wroten but I definitely say dranken, tooken, aten, and so on.Viktor77 wrote:Oh and just something really stupid. I've caught myself taking simple past forms of strong verbs and adding -en to make past participles. Thus dranken, tooken, and wroten. I doubt anyone else does this and I only seem to do it when I'm exhausted.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I am fascinated by the fact that speakers of English are reinventing old archaic verb forms. The example is in [img=http://i.imgur.com/OqQMOLc.jpg]this image[/img] where the speaker says "he has ever drunken." The past participle drunken reflects the Old English past participle gedruncen, the -en having fallen off over time to give drunk. Now speakers are adding it back on, likely with analogy from the adjective drunken (including myself, I do this too). But I think this is more than just an analogy with drunken. I think speakers are reestablishing the past participle of drunken based on the strong verb conjugation paradigm of participles ending in -en, such as broken, taken, etc. which didn't see their -en disappear.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Can you use wanderlust as a verb? And, if so, can it take a direct object or only a prepositional one? In the latter case, which preposition(s)?
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I myself don't remember ever having done so or ever seeing this. But Google Books gives a number of results for "wanderlusting" and "wanderluster", and even some for "wanderlusted". They aren't especially recent, either--I found several on the first few pages from the 1960s, and one from 1946. All of the usages I saw were intransitive with no complement or adjunct.linguoboy wrote:Can you use wanderlust as a verb? And, if so, can it take a direct object or only a prepositional one? In the latter case, which preposition(s)?
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I wouldn't use it personally, but it wouldn't strike me as overly strange either.linguoboy wrote:Can you use wanderlust as a verb? And, if so, can it take a direct object or only a prepositional one? In the latter case, which preposition(s)?
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I'm usually pretty forgiving when I judge what can and can't be a verb, but verbing 'wanderlust' just strikes me as... intensely strange. I feel like I'd do a double take if I heard it in conversation.
My conlang family:
- Ukumusi & Mupuasa -- Two peas in a pod. Tired of your nonsense.
- Ku Ṣili -- Lonely Misfit. Can't make up its mind.
- Ayakadiya -- Standoffish, self-important. Needs More Lexicon.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Has anyone else noticed a trend of people dropping the nasal in the -ent/-ant suffix? I see it a lot online, particularly with the word "dominant", which people frequently spell "dominate" and presumably pronounce /ˈdɑmənət/. I'm guessing the spelling is by analogy with other words where -ate represents /ət/, such as "desperate" and "intricate", but is it just a misspelling or did the pronunciation come first? Here's an Urban Dictionary entry from 2011 that complains about "dominate": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=5596387. To be honest it might be mostly just that particular word, but I feel like I've seen it in one or two other words that end in -ant as well.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
"Symbiote"/"symbiont" is a case where both versions are actually considered standard.Magb wrote:Has anyone else noticed a trend of people dropping the nasal in the -ent/-ant suffix? I see it a lot online, particularly with the word "dominant", which people frequently spell "dominate" and presumably pronounce /ˈdɑmənət/. I'm guessing the spelling is by analogy with other words where -ate represents /ət/, such as "desperate" and "intricate", but is it just a misspelling or did the pronunciation come first? Here's an Urban Dictionary entry from 2011 that complains about "dominate": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=5596387. To be honest it might be mostly just that particular word, but I feel like I've seen it in one or two other words that end in -ant as well.
With "dominant" > "dominate", one explanation that comes to my mind aside from analogy is nasal dissimilation.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Wouldn't it just be that there's a verb "to dominate"?Sumelic wrote:With "dominant" > "dominate", one explanation that comes to my mind aside from analogy is nasal dissimilation.
JAL
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
My thought is this could be vowel nasalization combined with /n/ elision (something that happens very frequently in some English varieties), followed by unstressed vowel denasalization, something that apparently happens at times in English varieties (my own included), reinforced by, as mentioned, dissimilation.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
The two are not pronounced the same. The verb has /eɪ/ where this has /ə/ or /ɨ/.jal wrote:Wouldn't it just be that there's a verb "to dominate"?Sumelic wrote:With "dominant" > "dominate", one explanation that comes to my mind aside from analogy is nasal dissimilation.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- KathTheDragon
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
But there is a productive rule governing the pronunciation of words ending in -ate, where verbs have /eɪ/ and adjectives have /ə/. It's therefore reasonable to suppose that we don't have a direct change of "dominant" to "dominate", but the creation of an adjective "dominate" from the verb.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Tis true.KathTheDragon wrote:But there is a productive rule governing the pronunciation of words ending in -ate, where verbs have /eɪ/ and adjectives have /ə/. It's therefore reasonable to suppose that we don't have a direct change of "dominant" to "dominate", but the creation of an adjective "dominate" from the verb.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Is this productive? What are some examples without parallel formations in -ant/-ent?KathTheDragon wrote:But there is a productive rule governing the pronunciation of words ending in -ate, where verbs have /eɪ/ and adjectives have /ə/. It's therefore reasonable to suppose that we don't have a direct change of "dominant" to "dominate", but the creation of an adjective "dominate" from the verb.
I doubt this explanation because I've heard similar pronunciations of words like permanent and pregnant. (I even remember seeing the latter respelled "pregnit" in a comic from the 80s.)
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
As have I; I sporadically use such pronunciations myself.linguoboy wrote:I doubt this explanation because I've heard similar pronunciations of words like permanent and pregnant. (I even remember seeing the latter respelled "pregnit" in a comic from the 80s.)
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- KathTheDragon
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Ah, well, I didn't have the advantage of knowing of those additional examples.
And yes, it is productive - try to think of a verb in -ate pronounced /-ət/, for example. I don't actually know if there are any such examples of homonymous verbs and adjectives; I did spend a while looking, though.
And yes, it is productive - try to think of a verb in -ate pronounced /-ət/, for example. I don't actually know if there are any such examples of homonymous verbs and adjectives; I did spend a while looking, though.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Um...I thought the productive process was deriving adjectives in /-ət/ from verbs, not verbs in /-ət/ or /-eːt/ from adjectives. And I can think of plenty of verbs in /-eːt/ without corresponding adjectives--assassinate, levitate, meditate, reinstate, etc. In fact, having a corresponding adjective in /-ət/ seems to be the exception, not the rule.KathTheDragon wrote:And yes, it is productive - try to think of a verb in -ate pronounced /-ət/, for example.
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
What? I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying that there's a synchronic association or derivational rule between verbs and adjectives in -ate, but rather that if a word in -ate is a verb it's pronounced /eɪt/, and if it's an adjective it's (usually) pronounced /ət/.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Some I can think of from the top of my head:
- subordinate
- coordinate
- concatenate
- expatriate
- attenuate
- federate
- aggregate
There are probably much more.
JAL
- subordinate
- coordinate
- concatenate
- expatriate
- attenuate
- federate
- aggregate
There are probably much more.
JAL
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
All I can think of for this is dominate [dɑwmɪnejt] and dominant [dɑwmɪnænt]... no schwa there for me. "Dominate" cannot possibly be considered an adjective for me, so part of me had no idea what you guys were on about for a while.
Here's a good list. subordinate [səboɹdɪnejt], and subordinate [səboɹdɪnɪt] are definitely a pair... though for me, the second one is both a noun and an adjective. All of the [...ət] versions are ambiguously nouns or adjectives, to be honest, and I think I'd prefer to pronounce ˈcoordinateˈ as [...ænt]. Coordinant. Spell check says that isn't a word -- how'd it get into my idiolect?jal wrote: Some I can think of from the top of my head:
- subordinate
- coordinate
- concatenate
- expatriate
- attenuate
- federate
- aggregate
My conlang family:
- Ukumusi & Mupuasa -- Two peas in a pod. Tired of your nonsense.
- Ku Ṣili -- Lonely Misfit. Can't make up its mind.
- Ayakadiya -- Standoffish, self-important. Needs More Lexicon.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Then you've misused "productive", because that's what that means in this context.KathTheDragon wrote:What? I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying that there's a synchronic association or derivational rule between verbs and adjectives in -ate
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
What word should I be using, if not productive?