The Innovative Usage Thread

[Pinetree]

My friends pronounce the <l> of not only <calm>, where the spelling pronunciation is so widespread it's found in dictionaries, but also of <balm>, <palm> and <psalm>.

Me too.

[Travis B.]

My friends pronounce the <l> of not only <calm>, where the spelling pronunciation is so widespread it's found in dictionaries, but also of <balm>, <palm> and <psalm>.

Me too.

Same with what I am used to amongst younger people (back in Wisconsin).

[Ser]

Addenda: also the <l> in "calf". They have some uncertainty about "half". Not pronounced at all in "salmon, could, would, should, talk, walk" though.

[finlay]

almond is the one where I pronounce it but many dictionaries prefer the one without. Also, my own surname Chalmers, which apparently was originally spelt like that to signify a long "palm" vowel (with the caveat that modern scottish accents don't really distinguish "palm" and "trap" vowels), and my dad still pronounces it that way. But I and the others in my family pronounce the L.

[Shrdlu]

Charumerusu.

[finlay]

charumaazu

[Nortaneous]

I have the spelling pronunciation after /O/, but not /{/.

[Ser]

[tʃa.ɾɯ.maːs]

[finlay]

チャルマーズだよ

Incidentally, basically the only time I have to give my name here is when I'm going to the doctor or bank; sometimes I don't recognise my name when they call it because it sounds a bit different. Other times, they get it wrong and call me Finlay-sama, and others just give up entirely and approach me directly with a "どうぞ".

[----]

I was just talking to one of my friends from up North, and he says he's never heard this phrase in his entire life used the way I did:
"How are you going to tell me?" and what I meant was "Why would you think you know better than me about this"
I've heard this from plenty of people around me; anyone else ever heard this phrasing? This phrase is the only one that this sort of interrogative-switching-whatever stuff happens with for me and the people around me, as far as I've heard.

[Boşkoventi]

I was just talking to one of my friends from up North, and he says he's never heard this phrase in his entire life used the way I did:
"How are you going to tell me?" and what I meant was "Why would you think you know better than me about this"
I've heard this from plenty of people around me; anyone else ever heard this phrasing? This phrase is the only one that this sort of interrogative-switching-whatever stuff happens with for me and the people around me, as far as I've heard.

Sounds a little odd by itself, but if someone said "How are you going to tell me how to X?" I'm sure I'd understand it. I'm not sure I've actually heard this phrasing though ... I'd probably say something like "Where do you get off telling me how to X?" or "You're telling me (how to X)?".

(Born and raised in the Washington, DC area, FWIW.)

[Melteor]

^^I would think it comes from, "If you're so smart, then tell me how you'd do it," and you extend it to, "How would you even be able to tell me how to do it if I already know how to do it?" it has a very distinctive intonation.

I think I would say instead, "I wasn't born yesterday, you know." right?

[Ser]

If you think Moscow be cold in winter, wait till your next meeting with your bank manager.

Now that's some interesting subjunctive. I tried to find information about the journalist, but could find little of importance, other than her location (London).

EDIT: Forgot the source.

[ol bofosh]

"I made/took a photo to a [relevant natural feature]"

Got a feeling that's of Spanish influence. It could be a new "Spanish Standard English", lol.

[Shm Jay]

If you think Moscow be cold in winter, wait till your next meeting with your bank manager.

Now that's some interesting subjunctive.

I'm quite sure that's incorrect in English. Perhaps the person who wrote this grew up speaking a Romance language?

[----]

I wouldn't say 'incorrect', per se, but definitely archaic. I've seen 'if...be' appear in older texts or imitations of that style.

[Yng]

'If' + subjunctive is acceptable in archaic-y English, but that's different from what's going on here. This is 'think' triggering the subjunctive, not 'if' triggering the subjunctive. 'If Moscow be cold' is fine. 'If he think Moscow is cold' also works by this rule (though I think only 'be' is even marginally acceptable to me in this construction). 'Think' triggering the subjunctive, as far as I am aware, has never been grammatical and is probably either an L2 error or an overgeneralisation by a Viktoresque journalist who thinks their command of pretentious forms is far greater than it actually is.

It also, incidentally, doesn't work in any of the Romance languages I'm familiar with, which I think all use the subjunctive only after 'think' in the negative or interrogative, and not otherwise.

[Travis B.]

I was just talking to one of my friends from up North, and he says he's never heard this phrase in his entire life used the way I did:
"How are you going to tell me?" and what I meant was "Why would you think you know better than me about this"
I've heard this from plenty of people around me; anyone else ever heard this phrasing? This phrase is the only one that this sort of interrogative-switching-whatever stuff happens with for me and the people around me, as far as I've heard.

This usage I am not familiar with at all, and I myself am from Wisconsin.

[Ser]

I'm quite sure that's incorrect in English. Perhaps the person who wrote this grew up speaking a Romance language?

Her name is "Helen Arnold", doesn't strike me like a Romance speaker (but you never know). And yeah, what Yng said, in Spanish and French you can't use a subjunctive after a verb like "to think" in the positive valency.

[Melteor]

^^I think you'd be able to get away with "to be cold in winter" but I'm still not sure what that sentence means. Bank managers are frigid like Siberia?

This is more like, "I consider the Queen's English to be the only proper English," or something stodgy. I would never drop the "to".

[Christopher Schröder]

I was just talking to one of my friends from up North, and he says he's never heard this phrase in his entire life used the way I did:
"How are you going to tell me?" and what I meant was "Why would you think you know better than me about this"
I've heard this from plenty of people around me; anyone else ever heard this phrasing? This phrase is the only one that this sort of interrogative-switching-whatever stuff happens with for me and the people around me, as far as I've heard.

I've never heard it, and I'm NOT from up North, but it seems logical enough.

[dhok]

If you think Moscow be cold in winter, wait till your next meeting with your bank manager.

Now that's some interesting subjunctive.

I'm quite sure that's incorrect in English. Perhaps the person who wrote this grew up speaking a Romance language?

It definitely looks like a cyclical or durative aspect, in which case it's perfectly grammatical AAVE.

[Ser]

Cyclical? If you mean habitual, it does strike me as a habitual. (If you think Moscow is always cold during the winter...)

Also:

I'd rather you didn't. I've still gotta figure out what I'm gonna do.

A double modal auxiliary of obligation, combining have to and gotta? (I still hafta figure out... I still gotta figure out...) (Source) Probably an anacoluthon though, due to a sudden introduction of "still".

[Travis B.]

I'd rather you didn't. I've still gotta figure out what I'm gonna do.

A double modal auxiliary of obligation, combining have to and gotta? (I still hafta figure out... I still gotta figure out...) (Source) Probably an anacoluthon though, due to a sudden introduction of "still".

I do not find anything unusual about that; in the English I am familiar with gotta is normally preceded by some form of have (not have to), and can be separated from it by adverbial forms. To me at least, it is unusual when gotta is not preceded by a form of have.

[Yng]

No, that's perfectly standard. It's just 'I have still got to' with the same shortening to gotta but with elision of 'have' rendered impossible by the appearance of 'since'.