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zompist bboard • View topic - The Innovative Usage Thread

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:30 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:47 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:28 pm 
Sumerul
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Listening to Emmanuel Macron speak in French, I noticed that instead of carrying the liaison of the final /t/ in "c'est" over to the onset of the first syllable of the next word as in /se tyn/ 'c'est une' he maintains the /t/ on the coda of /se/ creating /set/. His prosody shows a clear pause here /set yn/. I wonder if, in his attempts to embrace a high register of French which maintains many liaisons, he is just assuming that 'c'est' will almost always follow a vowel onset.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:24 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:07 pm 
Sumerul
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Sumelic, I just heard Emmanuel Macron say /set(.)da.vwaR/ c'est d'avoir, with a considerable pause between c'est and d'avoir, so it is likely a performance error because the second time he says it he does not include the liaison. What's fascinating is that he still did it that first time though.

This also apparently happens with the word débat /de.bat/.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:38 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:52 pm 
Avisaru
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I'd probably call that a clause rather than a sentence myself.

But yeah, the "because NOUN" phenomenon is interesting, because it peppers my speech all the time now, and I'm pretty sure I didn't use it or hear it when I was young, so sometime in the intervening decades I picked it up and didn't notice it at all—speaking as someone who's a little more aware than the average person of weird things like that.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:10 am 
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An acquaintance of mine, native speaker of Kurdish and Arabic, recently used the term "Weißarbeit" ("white labor") as an antonym to "Schwarzarbeit" ("black labor"), referring to a job that is official, including a contract, regulation by law, income tax et cetera. I thought that was very creative :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:50 pm 
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English speakers: who's replacing 'when' with 'where'? I feel that 'where' replaces a phrase like 'in which'...

Eg: There are days where you age years, and years where you age days


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:24 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:08 pm 
Lebom
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Interesting... I will have to look out for this because I have felt personally that I'm replacing 'when' with 'where' more often. A grad-student friend of mine independently brought up this topic, too, when she mentioned that the freshmen in her seminar replace the words. Hence, my curiosity in the topic.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:43 pm 
Smeric
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That does sound a bit familiar to me. I've also been noticing people use "where" in places where(!) they don't have to.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Recently there was a hand-wringing article about the barbaristic replacement of who with that in reference to persons (e.g. "the man who I saw there" vs "the man that I saw there") and, from the response, it seems a more common peeve than I realised. I wasn't surprised to find, upon investigating, that the use of who here is the innovation, but I didn't expect it to be quite so recent. It apparently originates in the 16th century and as late as the Victorian period educated philologists were still claiming that no one uses "who" here.

The use of interrogatives as relatives is a well-known SAE feature and now I'm curious how it originated. The usual relative pronoun in Standard German is still cognate with that, but some dialects have generalised cognates of where (e.g. Alemannic e Buech, wu mer umbedingt sott läse "a book you should definitely read") and I wonder how far that goes back.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:45 pm 
Smeric
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I'm always baffled by people who get upset about that. I was always taught "who" is animate, "which" is inanimate, and "that" is either, and I had an old-fashioned uptight grammar-prescriptive education.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:35 am 
Avisaru
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tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:58 am 
Smeric
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Last I remember, my mom's pronunciation of the word "queen" was [kʲʊˈʋɪn], and I remember her once (maybe about five years ago) telling me she was going to take a [kʲʋɪk] (quick) shower.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:14 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:00 am 
Sumerul
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On a similar note I always get thrown by the title of another thread here, "Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn" because "have" /hav/ and "have to" /haftə/ are totally different mental lexical entries for me, so I always start thinking it's something I possess instead of something with which I must do something.

Like I'd have worded it "have to (or have had to)", so strong is the connection between 'have' and 'to' in my mind. (had to is also normally /hattə/ for me, is this not normal with other people too?)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:47 pm 
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