What's in a name

[sirred]

I do not know if something like this has been discussed before (it probably has) or if it is a common phenomenon (it probably is), but I find it interesting at least. There is a river which flows from the state of Arkansas to the state of Colorado. When this river is within Arkansas proper, Oklahoma or Colorado, it is properly pronounced /ˈɑrkənsɔː/. However, when this river is within Kansas, it is properly pronounced /'arˈkænzəs/. This is not a case of the dialect of Kansas simply pronouncing Arkansas as /ˈarkænzəs/ in every instance. The state in question is pronounced /ˈɑrkənsɔː/.by citizens of Kansas. However, whenever the word Arkansas occurs within Kansas borders (there is also an Arkansas City), Arkansas becomes /arˈkænzəs/.

[mapking27]

This is true Sirred:
In some places things are spelt the same but pronounced differently. In Kentucky (which borders Illinois to the south), Illinois is pronounced (ill-ih-no-way). In Illinois itself, it's pronounced (ill-ih-noi). In New York, where I'm from, it's commonly pronounced (ill-ih-noiz)-- the last syllable is pronounced like what comes from a teen party (which i've been to a lot of as a matter of fact). The three areas all speak the same language, but with different accents or dialects.

Did you know that in Arkansas, there's a fine for mispronouncing Arkansas! (That's what I heard-- I don't know if it's right or not).

[TomHChappell]

New York's Houston street is not pronounced the same way the name of the Texas metropolis is pronounced.
The second-biggest-state's biggest city is pronounced as if it were derived from "Hugh's Town", (as it indeed is).*
The New York street is pronounced as if it were derived from "House Town". I don't know if it actually has a different etymology, or what.

*(Sir Hugh was on time to save King William's ass in some donnybrook in Ireland. So William gave Hugh a town and the motto "In Time".)

[Rui]

New York's Houston street is not pronounced the same way the name of the Texas metropolis is pronounced.
The second-biggest-state's biggest city is pronounced as if it were derived from "Hugh's Town", (as it indeed is).*
The New York street is pronounced as if it were derived from "House Town". I don't know if it actually has a different etymology, or what.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_street#History, they are named for different people Also, no idea where you are getting this "Hugh's Town" stuff from (another of your puns?), but I was always under the impression that it was named for Sam Houston.

There's a town in SW Connecticut called Darien. The mark of someone outside the area is pronouncing it as it should be: /d{ri@n/ or something similar. In fact, by people from the area, it is pronounced /d{ri{n/ or similar.

[TomHChappell]

Also, no idea where you are getting this "Hugh's Town" stuff from (another of your puns?), but I was always under the impression that it was named for Sam Houston.

No, I got it from a descendant of Sam Houston, who told me that all of them were descended from Sir Hugh.
This story is much like that one as far as the "Sir Hugh --> Houston" thing goes, but doesn't explain the "In Time" motto as my Mr. Houston's story did. Maybe they were different Sir Hughs. Or, more likely IMO, maybe the "In Time" story took place a lot later than the "Hugh's Town" story.

At an early period in the history of the Houstons, John Houston with a body of soldiers reinforced a broken column and for his great courage and unexampled (sp) energy was knighted on the field of battle. The greyhounds indicate the fleetness of his command in coming to the rescue, the last sand of the hourglass extremity of the army and the motto in Time it's victory

This story, unacademic as it may be, seems to say that the "in time" motto and the coat-of-arms with greyhounds on it, were awarded to a man already named Houston. Possibly my colleague James Houston mixed the two stories up.

The Official Seal of arms of General Sam Houston, as handed down to him from noble ancestors. The simple Escutcheon in the center of the seal consists of checkered chevrons denoting nobility, and three Martlets, gentle Lowland birds symbolizing peace and deliverance. A winged hourglass is above the shield and surmounting this, the motto, “In Tempore” (In Time). Greyhounds were placed at the sides to indicate the speed in giving aid. The seal was adopted by UH in 1938 in conjunction with the construction of the campus. The first official version was placed on the floor of the Roy Cullen Building.

http://www.surnameguide.com/houstoun/index.htm strongly suggests that William Houstoun and Sam Houston got their last names from the same source.

[linguoboy]

Also, no idea where you are getting this "Hugh's Town" stuff from

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston,_R ... e#Toponymy

"Hugo De Padvinan, a Norman Knight Templar who followed Walter Fitzalan the High Steward of Scotland and progenitor of the Royal House of Stewart, gave his name to the village established around his home, creating the concatenation 'Houston' from 'Hugh's Town'."

I don't know the source (Groome Gazetteer) so I'm holding out until I see this corroborated somewhere.

[TomHChappell]

In Michigan the name of Lake Orion is pronounced ["o r\`i j@n], stress on the first <o>.
In most 'lects I know the name of the constellation is pronounced [o "r\`aj @n], stress on the long <i>.

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Residents pronounce rhyme the name of the town with "Mary Ann," with the stress on the last syllable: /dɛəriˈæn/ dair-ee-an). More common in the mid-to-late 20th Century was "dare-i-YEN" (short "e" sound vice short "a"), spoken quickly.

"You can always tell when someone is not from here because they do pronounce it the way it’s spelled," Louise Berry, director of the town library, said in a 2006 interview.[1]

The town name was "frequently pronounced Dairy Ann" at least as far back as 1913, as reported in a travel book published that year.[2]

The village of Darien, Wisconsin shares this pronunciation.

[linguoboy]

Yes, and in Chicago we say the street name "Devon" with final stress, "Goethe" with /o:/ instead of an approximation of [ø:], Des Plaines with two /z/'s, etc. etc. I thought sirred had something more specific in mind when starting this thread than just laundry-listing local pronunciations, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

[Nortaneous]

A lot of people from this part of Maryland pronounce David Bowie's last name /ˈbu.i/ because there's a relatively large town here called Bowie that's pronounced that way.

[Cockroach]

I fucking hate people who pronounce my state /wɔɹʃɪŋtən/

[linguoboy]

I fucking hate people who pronounce my state /wɔɹʃɪŋtən/

That's one for the Venting Thread. So is this:

I don't hate people who say "Mizzurah". I hate people who aren't even from Missouri who tell me that's how I should pronounce it when they hear me say "Mizzuree".

[Cockroach]

I think it's also appropriate here

[Bristel]

I hate it when people can't pronounce: /pjuː.æləp/ "Puyallup", /bɒθəl/ "Bothell", /dɨˈmɔɪnz/ "Des Moines", /mʌkəlˈtiː.oʊ/ "Mukilteo", /pɒndəˈreɪ/ "Pend Oreille", /ˈpɑːlzboʊ/ "Poulsbo", /'pjuːdʒɨt/ "Puget", /səˈmæmɪʃ/ "Sammamish", /siːkjuː/ "Sekiu", /ˈskwɪm/ "Sequim", /stɪləkʌm/ "Steilacoom" and many others...

Damn the non-Washingtonians!

[makvas]

Ignoring the previous two spam posts...

This is true Sirred:
In some places things are spelt the same but pronounced differently. In Kentucky (which borders Illinois to the south), Illinois is pronounced (ill-ih-no-way). In Illinois itself, it's pronounced (ill-ih-noi). In New York, where I'm from, it's commonly pronounced (ill-ih-noiz)-- the last syllable is pronounced like what comes from a teen party (which i've been to a lot of as a matter of fact). The three areas all speak the same language, but with different accents or dialects.

My dad is from Illinois and he says it [ɛɫ.lɪ.nɔi] or thereabouts. He doesn't do [ɪ] -> [ɛ] for any other words though (e.g. "milk" is still [mɪɫk]).

[Travis B.]

This is true Sirred:
In some places things are spelt the same but pronounced differently. In Kentucky (which borders Illinois to the south), Illinois is pronounced (ill-ih-no-way). In Illinois itself, it's pronounced (ill-ih-noi). In New York, where I'm from, it's commonly pronounced (ill-ih-noiz)-- the last syllable is pronounced like what comes from a teen party (which i've been to a lot of as a matter of fact). The three areas all speak the same language, but with different accents or dialects.

My dad is from Illinois and he says it [ɛɫ.lɪ.nɔi] or thereabouts. He doesn't do [ɪ] -> [ɛ] for any other words though (e.g. "milk" is still [mɪɫk]).

I have and am used to [ˈɜːʟ̞ɨ̃ːˌnɔ̆ɪ̯̆]~[ˈɜːʟ̞ɨ̃ːˌnɔɪ̯]~[ˈɜːɰɨ̃ːˌnɔ̆ɪ̯̆]~[ˈɜːɰɨ̃ːˌnɔɪ̯] for Illinois, but have heard it on occasion with [ɪ] instead of [ɜ] as well. As for milk, I myself have [ˈmɪɯ̞̯k], but I am also very used to [ˈmɜɯ̞̯k]~[ˈmɜɤ̯k], which my mom, for instance, has. However, I do not have and am not used to any generalized shifting at all of historical /ɪl/ to historical /ɛl/; this is very limited in scope at a lexical level and is not productive.

[linguoboy]

/mɪˈzʊɹi/ > /mɪˈzʊɹə/

In St Louis, that marks you as being either (a) a hoosier or (b) a politician. Hard to say which of the two is worse, innit?

[Přemysl]

There's a town in SW Connecticut called Darien. The mark of someone outside the area is pronouncing it as it should be: /d{ri@n/ or something similar. In fact, by people from the area, it is pronounced /d{ri{n/ or similar.

Down there in the corner they say [d{r\i{n] and not [dEr\i{n]?