modern German declension
modern German declension
So the distinctions between cases in German are made mostly by articles, right? Is there a name for this phenomenon? At what stage in the development of the language did it arise? Are there any parallels in other Germanic languages?
Re: modern German declension
Declension by means of articles existed already in Middle High German (i.e. ~1050-1350), but not in Old High German (~750-1050, though note that there's hardly anything in German during the reign of the Ottonians because they preferred Latin). Basically, the only thing about definite articles that changed in 800 years is diu /dy:/ > die /di:/. Declension of other determiners/modifiers (indefinite articles, adjectives, possessives, demonstratives) changed a little more, though. As for whether there's a special term for declension by article, I don't know.
Re: modern German declension
Yeah, all that basically happened as far as I can tell is that whilst sound change (particularly final unstressed vowels turning to schwas, m and n becoming confused etc) pretty much killed off noun declension (or at least simplified it to the point where analogy could do the rest - technically in modern German the dative CAN be distinguished on a lot of nouns by suffix, but I'm told it sounds tremendously stuffy - at least in the singular), but did not have the same effect on articles, which remained, comparatively, highly distinct. It's not so much that declension necessarily shifted to articles, AFAIK, but more articles developed which agreed in case and, at the same time or perhaps later, noun declension was levelled significantly.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: modern German declension
Dative -n is required for some nouns.
Re: modern German declension
Is that in the singular? I thought it was just in the plural?Guitarplayer wrote:Dative -n is required for some nouns.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: modern German declension
No, see here: http://goo.gl/0Yazj
Re: modern German declension
Ahh, weak nouns. True, but they vary only based on nom/non-nom, right?
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: modern German declension
Da bin ich überfragt
Re: modern German declension
Well from the page you linked, they do.
If I'm right, nouns in German basically break down into:
Masculine/neuter
Strong nouns with a plural in -(e)n or -s, which decline (NOM ACC DAT GEN) -ø -ø -ø/-e -(e)s -PLU -PLU -PLU -PLU - e.g.
Strong nouns with any other native plural, which decline -ø -ø -ø/-e -(e)s -PLU -PLU -PLU-n -PLU
Weak nouns, which decline -ø -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n
The -e in the singular being semi-archaic at least.
Feminine
Strong nouns with a plural in -(e)n or -s, which decline (NOM ACC DAT GEN) -ø -ø -ø -ø -PLU -PLU -PLU -PLU
Strong nouns with any other native plural, which decline -ø -ø -ø -ø -PLU -PLU -PLU-n -PLU
With feminine declension being characterised by the lack of distinct singular endings for either the dative or genitive.
So for example:
das Mädchen, das Mädchen, dem Mädchen, des Mädchens, die Mädchen, die Mädchen, den Mädchen, der Mädchen
das Kind, das Kind, dem Kind(e), des Kindes, die Kinder, die Kinder, den Kindern, der Kindern
der Name, den Namen, dem Namen, des Namen, die Namen, die Namen, den Namen, der Namen
die Katze, die Katze, der Katze, der Katze, die Katzen, die Katzen, den Katzen, der Katzen
die Stadt, die Stadt, der Stadt, der Stadt, die Städte, die Städte, den Städten, der Städte
But there is Herz which you pointed out is irregular and acts like a weak noun everywhere except the accusative and the genitive, and some others as well.
If I'm right, nouns in German basically break down into:
Masculine/neuter
Strong nouns with a plural in -(e)n or -s, which decline (NOM ACC DAT GEN) -ø -ø -ø/-e -(e)s -PLU -PLU -PLU -PLU - e.g.
Strong nouns with any other native plural, which decline -ø -ø -ø/-e -(e)s -PLU -PLU -PLU-n -PLU
Weak nouns, which decline -ø -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n
The -e in the singular being semi-archaic at least.
Feminine
Strong nouns with a plural in -(e)n or -s, which decline (NOM ACC DAT GEN) -ø -ø -ø -ø -PLU -PLU -PLU -PLU
Strong nouns with any other native plural, which decline -ø -ø -ø -ø -PLU -PLU -PLU-n -PLU
With feminine declension being characterised by the lack of distinct singular endings for either the dative or genitive.
So for example:
das Mädchen, das Mädchen, dem Mädchen, des Mädchens, die Mädchen, die Mädchen, den Mädchen, der Mädchen
das Kind, das Kind, dem Kind(e), des Kindes, die Kinder, die Kinder, den Kindern, der Kindern
der Name, den Namen, dem Namen, des Namen, die Namen, die Namen, den Namen, der Namen
die Katze, die Katze, der Katze, der Katze, die Katzen, die Katzen, den Katzen, der Katzen
die Stadt, die Stadt, der Stadt, der Stadt, die Städte, die Städte, den Städten, der Städte
But there is Herz which you pointed out is irregular and acts like a weak noun everywhere except the accusative and the genitive, and some others as well.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: modern German declension
Your example is wrong - there is a small group of weak male nouns that goes N -e, DA -en, G -ens, and Name belongs to that group; others are Friede "peace", Drache "dragon".*)YngNghymru wrote:Weak nouns, which decline -ø -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n -(e)n
der Name, den Namen, dem Namen, des Namen, die Namen, die Namen, den Namen, der Namen
A better example would have been Erbe "heir".
*) All these words can also be declined like Balken, Rechen etc. - i. e. -en in all case and number forms except except Gen. sg. -ens. Nom. Namen is frequently found in colloquial registers, Frieden is now the standard literary form while Friede is poetic / old-fashioned, if not archaic; in the literary language, Drache is only used for "dragon", while Drachen is the only admissible form for the meaning "kite" (but it can be used for "dragon" as well, especially in the colloquial language). In any case, a gen. *des Namen doesn't exist in Standard Modern German.
(Now that I think of it - Drache can also take the Gen. Sg. in -en).
Re: modern German declension
To save my butt: Yng asked me whether he was right on IRC after he'd written that, I said yes, but I must've overlooked the one with "Name"