The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Here is a recording of me saying "beat, bead, bit, bid", the first monosyllabic words I could think of sharing an onset which differed by both /iː/ versus /ɪ/ and a fortis coda versus a lenis coda.
The spectrogram is as follows:
The spectrogram is as follows:
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Here is a recording of me saying "lease, sees, beast, Liz, sis, pissed", as originally asked about.
The spectrogram is as follows:
The spectrogram is as follows:
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
In that first one it sounds (to me at least) like you're aspirating your word-final /t/s. Is that a normal thing in your speech, or is it because you're pronouncing them particularly carefully?
Mine are normally unreleased, unless they come before a word that phonetically begins in a vowel or (at least sometimes) the semivowel /j/, in which case it's flapped or palatalized, as in "bet him" [b̥ɛɾɪm] and "bet ya" [b̥ɛtʃə].
Mine are normally unreleased, unless they come before a word that phonetically begins in a vowel or (at least sometimes) the semivowel /j/, in which case it's flapped or palatalized, as in "bet him" [b̥ɛɾɪm] and "bet ya" [b̥ɛtʃə].
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Those are actually /d/s being realized as [tʰ]. I am realizing my final /t/s as [ʔ]. (Note the words below the spectrogram.)CatDoom wrote:In that first one it sounds (to me at least) like you're aspirating your word-final /t/s. Is that a normal thing in your speech, or is it because you're pronouncing them particularly carefully?
Mine are normally unreleased, unless they come before a word that phonetically begins in a vowel or (at least sometimes) the semivowel /j/, in which case it's flapped or palatalized, as in "bet him" [b̥ɛɾɪm] and "bet ya" [b̥ɛtʃə].
This is because I have final devoicing of obstruents in words not followed in the same utterance by vowels or some other sonorants. (I did not really realize I actually aspirated devoiced final /d/ though.)
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Okay, I was of course being facetious asking for a spectrogram, but it's interesting to actually see it. (thanks! )
The reason I ask, I think, is that nominally I don't have a length distinction in my native-sounding speech (but I do when teaching basically) - but I never lengthen the "short" vowels, so "Liz" and "list" have the same length vowel, I think. As far as I know that's normal in scotland. So maybe I do have a length distinction. Anyway, this all came up because someone - I think you - complained that someone was using length marks in a phonemic transcription. Just let it be, god.
The reason I ask, I think, is that nominally I don't have a length distinction in my native-sounding speech (but I do when teaching basically) - but I never lengthen the "short" vowels, so "Liz" and "list" have the same length vowel, I think. As far as I know that's normal in scotland. So maybe I do have a length distinction. Anyway, this all came up because someone - I think you - complained that someone was using length marks in a phonemic transcription. Just let it be, god.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
If one has vowel length allophony for historical long vowels (e.g. they can be realized as long or short) but not for historical short vowels (e.g. they can only be realized as short), then one still has phonemic vowel length.
Anyways, I was not complaining about someone marking historical vowel length in transcriptions, I just found it interesting because if it were accurate it meant that their variety of NAE still retained historical phonemic vowel length (which, to my knowledge, most of NAE, minus some dialects on the East Coast, has lost)..
Anyways, I was not complaining about someone marking historical vowel length in transcriptions, I just found it interesting because if it were accurate it meant that their variety of NAE still retained historical phonemic vowel length (which, to my knowledge, most of NAE, minus some dialects on the East Coast, has lost)..
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
How do you pronounce “canyon” and “Enya”?
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
canyon: /ˈkænjən/ [ˈkʰɛ̃ː(n)jɘ̃(ː)(n)]
Enya: /ˈɛnjə/ [ˈɜ̃ː(n)jə(ː)]
Enya: /ˈɛnjə/ [ˈɜ̃ː(n)jə(ː)]
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Canyon [ˈkʰænjən]
Enya [ˈɛnjə].
Enya [ˈɛnjə].
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
- ol bofosh
- Smeric
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 pm
- Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
canyon [ˈkʰænʲ.jən]
Enya [ˈɛnʲ.jɜ]
Onion [ˈɐnʲ.jən]
This is more or less how I pronounce Spanish <ñ>, since "onion" was the example I was given, and I've practiced it like that ever since.
año would be more or less [ˈanʲ.jo], whilst anio (invented word) would be [ˈan.jo] (perhaps [ˈa.njo] if I were more careful), so not entirely guiri-fied.
Enya [ˈɛnʲ.jɜ]
Onion [ˈɐnʲ.jən]
This is more or less how I pronounce Spanish <ñ>, since "onion" was the example I was given, and I've practiced it like that ever since.
año would be more or less [ˈanʲ.jo], whilst anio (invented word) would be [ˈan.jo] (perhaps [ˈa.njo] if I were more careful), so not entirely guiri-fied.
It was about time I changed this.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
canyon [kʰeən.jɨn]
Enya [ɛn.jə]
Both /n/s are laminal alveolar, with the tongue tip almost touching the back of the upper teeth.
Onion, though... [əŋ.jɨn]
Enya [ɛn.jə]
Both /n/s are laminal alveolar, with the tongue tip almost touching the back of the upper teeth.
Onion, though... [əŋ.jɨn]
- KathTheDragon
- Smeric
- Posts: 2139
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
- Location: Brittania
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Velar? Really?vokzhen wrote:Onion, though... [əŋ.jɨn]
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Yes. I've heard people bring it up before, for example on Wiktionary and Wikipedia's Language Reference Desk.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
The Scots word is 'ingin'. The older palatal nasal (written nȝ or later nz) often turned into a velar nasal. That pronunciation may well come from there.
-
- Lebom
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
canyon /kæn.jən/ [kæ̞n.jən]
Enya /ɛn.jə/ [ɛn.jɜ]
onion /ʌn.jən/ [ɐn.jən]
Edit: Perhaps I was tired when I wrote that; it should be this:
Enya /ʔɛn.jə/ [ʔɛn.jɜ]
onion /ʔʌn.jən/ [ʔɐn.jən]
canyon /kæn.jən/ [kʰæ̞n.jən]
Enya /ɛn.jə/ [ɛn.jɜ]
onion /ʌn.jən/ [ɐn.jən]
Edit: Perhaps I was tired when I wrote that; it should be this:
Enya /ʔɛn.jə/ [ʔɛn.jɜ]
onion /ʔʌn.jən/ [ʔɐn.jən]
canyon /kæn.jən/ [kʰæ̞n.jən]
Last edited by schyrsivochter on Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
My version of the SCA²
About my conlangs: No. 1 is my proto-language, and No. 4, my main conlang, is one of its descendants. I’m currently revising 4, calling it 4a.
About my conlangs: No. 1 is my proto-language, and No. 4, my main conlang, is one of its descendants. I’m currently revising 4, calling it 4a.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I'd find it implausible that a German would not aspirate an initial k.schyrsivochter wrote:canyon /kæn.jən/ [kæ̞n.jən]
JAL
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I don't want to be that guy, but I don't really see what benefit a foreign speaker of English brings to the discussion.schyrsivochter wrote:canyon /kæn.jən/ [kæ̞n.jən]
Enya /ɛn.jə/ [ɛn.jɜ]
onion /ʌn.jən/ [ɐn.jən]
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Haha, that guy or not, I totally agree with you :).Viktor77 wrote:I don't want to be that guy, but I don't really see what benefit a foreign speaker of English brings to the discussion.
JAL
-
- Lebom
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Of course, me too. I simply forgot the ʰ, thank you. I’ve edited it.jal wrote:I'd find it implausible that a German would not aspirate an initial k.schyrsivochter wrote:canyon /kæn.jən/ [kæ̞n.jən]
JAL
Please give me reasons why I shouldn’t be participating. The original post didn’t say anything about English as a second language.Viktor77 wrote:I don't want to be that guy, but I don't really see what benefit a foreign speaker of English brings to the discussion.
My version of the SCA²
About my conlangs: No. 1 is my proto-language, and No. 4, my main conlang, is one of its descendants. I’m currently revising 4, calling it 4a.
About my conlangs: No. 1 is my proto-language, and No. 4, my main conlang, is one of its descendants. I’m currently revising 4, calling it 4a.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
In my humble opinion it's implied. If I were doing a study of English, whether it be some phonetic variation or even a grammatically judgement, I would explicitly state that all participants must be native speakers of English (unless I had some goal aimed at measuring second language speakers). Likewise, I speak good French but I would never participate in a study asking how I pronounce a word in French. I don't think I need to go into why someone wouldn't ask a non-native speaker to participate in a study like this.schyrsivochter wrote:Please give me reasons why I shouldn’t be participating. The original post didn’t say anything about English as a second language.Viktor77 wrote:I don't want to be that guy, but I don't really see what benefit a foreign speaker of English brings to the discussion.
Now if we asked how to say a German word, you would be welcome to participate and I would be ineligible.
- KathTheDragon
- Smeric
- Posts: 2139
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
- Location: Brittania
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Except sometimes you're not actually interested in how native speakers say something, but how non-native speakers have learnt the word. I know this happens because I've done it. So, really, I don't see a benefit to excluding non-native speakers.Viktor77 wrote:In my humble opinion it's implied. If I were doing a study of English, whether it be some phonetic variation or even a grammatically judgement, I would explicitly state that all participants must be native speakers of English (unless I had some goal aimed at measuring second language speakers). Likewise, I speak good French but I would never participate in a study asking how I pronounce a word in French. I don't think I need to go into why someone wouldn't ask a non-native speaker to participate in a study like this.schyrsivochter wrote:Please give me reasons why I shouldn’t be participating. The original post didn’t say anything about English as a second language.Viktor77 wrote:I don't want to be that guy, but I don't really see what benefit a foreign speaker of English brings to the discussion.
Now if we asked how to say a German word, you would be welcome to participate and I would be ineligible.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
We are not doing a study here, and everyone knows who the non-native speakers are in the first place, so I do not see any reason to exclude non-native speakers. Anyways, as Kath said, it may be interesting seeing how non-native speakers have learned various words.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- ol bofosh
- Smeric
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 pm
- Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Ditto, foreign-speakers are a-okay. Kay?
It was about time I changed this.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
It seems the concensus then that EFL speakers are welcome to contribute.
JAL
JAL
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Alrighty then. I rest my case.jal wrote:It seems the concensus then that EFL speakers are welcome to contribute.