The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

[Pole, the]

złoty/zloty - [ˈz̪ʷwɔˑ.t̪ɪ̽] [ˈzʷwɔt.i] or [ˈzlɔt.i] /ˈzwɒt.i/ or /ˈzlɒt.i/

I am currently experiencing a strong case of Mandela Effect. I remember learning the word złóty, pronounced zwutɨ or something along those lines, before travelling to Poland for the first time several years ago.
Please tell me that there is a form of the word or a dialectal variation (Małopolska?) with /u/ in the first syllable.

I don't know of any such variation (I'm not a dialectology expert, though).

Maybe you got it contaminated with „żółty” [z̠uwtɨ] yellow?

[Zaarin]

Inspired by this comment: do you pronounce “Prussian” as [pɹʌsiən] or [pɹʌʃən]?

[pɹ̱ˁʌʃn̩]

[jmcd]

/haipərboɫ/

I'm not sure wther its my own spelling pronounciation or someone else's heard.
I'm not even internally consistent because I don't have the expected /əi/.

[Travis B.]

These are two things I have noticed recently which seem, well, very odd, and I did not feel like creating a new thread for them:

My daughter (she is almost 8 years old) pronounces daddy often as da[t]y with a quite clearly audible [t]. Note that the vowel in the first syllable is long, indicating that the [t] is really /d/.

On a related note, I find myself at times pronouncing ready as rea[t]y with a quite clearly audible [t]. Note that the vowel in the first syllable is short, indicating that the [t] is really /t/.

[Zaarin]

I've also noticed something odd with my coronal stops. Like many Americans, I flap them between vowels and debuccalize them before resonants:

kitty [kʰɪɾi] BUT kitten [kʰɪʔn̩]

Likewise debuccalization occurs where expected in words like button, butter (at least when pronounced quickly), and bottle. However, I've found a few words that don't fit the pattern for inexplicable reasons:

bottom [bɑɾm̩] *[bɑʔm̩] (In fact, I'm almost tempted to analyze this word as ?[bɑɾəm], but see the next example...)
scuttle [skʌɾl̩~skʌtl̩] (likewise rebuttal, etc.)
muddle [mʌdl̩] (likewise cuddle, etc.)

I'd be tempted to attribute the blockage to back(-ish) vowels were bottle and button not obvious counterexamples.

[Sumelic]

I've also noticed something odd with my coronal stops. Like many Americans, I flap them between vowels and debuccalize them before resonants:

kitty [kʰɪɾi] BUT kitten [kʰɪʔn̩]

Likewise debuccalization occurs where expected in words like button, butter (at least when pronounced quickly), and bottle. However, I've found a few words that don't fit the pattern for inexplicable reasons:

bottom [bɑɾm̩] *[bɑʔm̩] (In fact, I'm almost tempted to analyze this word as ?[bɑɾəm], but see the next example...)
scuttle [skʌɾl̩~skʌtl̩] (likewise rebuttal, etc.)
muddle [mʌdl̩] (likewise cuddle, etc.)

I'd be tempted to attribute the blockage to back(-ish) vowels were bottle and button not obvious counterexamples.

The pattern you describe sounds odd to me. For one thing, I only ever have [ʔ] as an allophone of the voiceless stop /t/, never of the voiced stop /d/. The voiced stop is also not clearly distinguishable for me from the flap/tap. I couldn't tell from your description if this also applies to you. For another thing, in general I only use this allophone before syllabic /n̩/, not before other syllabic resonants like /l̩/, /r̩/ and /m̩/. Pronouncing /t/ as [ʔ] in "bottle", "butter" or "atom", in either fast or slow speech, is something I would expect from a British speaker; I wouldn't expect it from an American.

[Travis B.]

Ready for me is especially odd because in my idiolect my normal pattern is basically to elide unstressed intervocalic non-sibilant alveolar consonants, and even some unstressed intervocalic alveolar clusters and non-alveolar consonants, when I can possibly get away with it (frankly I am amazed people actually understand me), but in the case of ready I do the exact opposite when I stress it, where instead it undergoes fortition, something that I do not normally do at all.

[Zaarin]

I've also noticed something odd with my coronal stops. Like many Americans, I flap them between vowels and debuccalize them before resonants:

kitty [kʰɪɾi] BUT kitten [kʰɪʔn̩]

Likewise debuccalization occurs where expected in words like button, butter (at least when pronounced quickly), and bottle. However, I've found a few words that don't fit the pattern for inexplicable reasons:

bottom [bɑɾm̩] *[bɑʔm̩] (In fact, I'm almost tempted to analyze this word as ?[bɑɾəm], but see the next example...)
scuttle [skʌɾl̩~skʌtl̩] (likewise rebuttal, etc.)
muddle [mʌdl̩] (likewise cuddle, etc.)

I'd be tempted to attribute the blockage to back(-ish) vowels were bottle and button not obvious counterexamples.

The pattern you describe sounds odd to me. For one thing, I only ever have [ʔ] as an allophone of the voiceless stop /t/, never of the voiced stop /d/. The voiced stop is also not clearly distinguishable for me from the flap/tap. I couldn't tell from your description if this also applies to you. For another thing, in general I only use this allophone before syllabic /n̩/, not before other syllabic resonants like /l̩/, /r̩/ and /m̩/. Pronouncing /t/ as [ʔ] in "bottle", "butter" or "atom", in either fast or slow speech, is something I would expect from a British speaker; I wouldn't expect it from an American.

You're correct, I never debuccalize /d/; I hadn't considered that. Nor can I think of any instance of debuccalization before /m/. However, I definitely debuccalize /t/ before /l̩ r̩/ in most circumstances in quick speech in prosodically unstressed positions (whereas I always debuccalize before /n̩/ regardless of prosodic or phonetic stress). I suppose my usage here is best described as idiosyncratic.

[Imralu]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious to me that it's because of the /m/. I have an unreleased alveolar stops before /n/ instead of glottal stops, so I don't think there's anything unpredictable about my distribution of t-d allophones. What is a bit unusual is the distinction between /t/ and /d/ is preserved before /n/ but otherwise lost.

button [ˈbät̚n̩]
butter [ˈbäɾɐ]
bottom [ˈbɔɾəm]
bottle [ˈbɔɾɫ̩]*
cotton [ˈkʰɔt̚n̩]
madam [ˈmæɾəm]
scuttle [ˈskäɾɫ̩]*
cuddle [ˈkʰäɾɫ̩]*
midden [ˈmɪd̚n̩]
mitten [ˈmɪt̚n̩]
middle [ˈmɪɾɫ̩]*

*The /l/ can also be vocalised to something like /u/ (which is otherwise absent in AusE).

How do you pronounce "madam", "middle", "midden" and "mitten"

[Travis B.]

button [ˈpʌʔn̩(ː)]
butter [ˈpʌɾʁ̩(ː)~pʌːʁ]
bottom [ˈpaɾm̩(ː)~paːm]
bottle [ˈpaɾɯ(ː)~paːɤ]
cotton [ˈkʰaʔn̩(ː)]
madam [mɛ̃(ː)m]
scuttle [ˈskʌɾɯ(ː)]
cuddle [ˈkʰʌːɾɯ(ː)]
midden [ˈmɘːɾɘ̃(ː)(n)~mɘːnː~mɘ̃ːːn]
mitten [ˈmɘʔn̩(ː)]
middle [ˈmɘːɾɯ(ː)~mɘːːɯ]

[Zaarin]

How do you pronounce "madam", "middle", "midden" and "mitten"

[mædm̩]
[mɪdl̩]
[mɪdn̩]
[mɪʔn̩]

[----]

For me /d/-debuccalization only occurs in a couple words--the modal negative auxiliaries wouldn't, couldn't, and shouldn't. I pronounce them [wʊʔɪnt], [kʰʊʔɪnt], [ʃʊʔɪnt] respectively, with further reduction of the second syllable in connected speech of course. This has to be something specific to this lexical set, as I cannot think of any other words where I do this, and also, I pronounce "wooden", what ought to be a near homophone with wouldn't, as [wʊɾɪn].

[Zaarin]

For me /d/-debuccalization only occurs in a couple words--the modal negative auxiliaries wouldn't, couldn't, and shouldn't. I pronounce them [wʊʔɪnt], [kʰʊʔɪnt], [ʃʊʔɪnt] respectively, with further reduction of the second syllable in connected speech of course. This has to be something specific to this lexical set, as I cannot think of any other words where I do this, and also, I pronounce "wooden", what ought to be a near homophone with wouldn't, as [wʊɾɪn].

Same here.

[Travis B.]

wouldn't [ˈwʊːɾɘ̃(n)(ʔ)~wʊːnː(ʔ)~wʊ̃ːɘ̃(n)(ʔ)]
couldn't [ˈkʰʊːɾɘ̃(n)(ʔ)~kʰʊːnː(ʔ)~kʰʊ̃ːɘ̃(n)(ʔ)]
shouldn't [ˈɕʉːɾɘ̃(n)(ʔ)~ɕʉːnː(ʔ)~ɕʉ̃ːɘ̃(n)(ʔ)]

[Viktor77]

I just returned from a trip to Louisville, Kentucky, and now I'm wondering if I'll sound pretentious if I pronounce Louisville as natives do, something like /lu:.@.v@5/ or /lu:v@5/ or /lu:.vI5/ or that first syllable might even be /lU/ it's hard to say. In any case it's not the /lu.i.vI5/ that I learned growing up.

So does anyone try to pronounce Louisville as a native Louisvillian(?) would? I've done this for other geographic pronunciations once my ignorance erm...I mean variation... was revealed, such as Oregon.

*EDIT* To fix notation of dark l.

[Pole, the]

I just returned from a trip to Louisville, Kentucky, and now I'm wondering if I'll sound pretentious if I pronounce Louisville as natives do, something like /luː.ə.vɚ/ or /luːvɚ/

Wait, are Louisville and Louvre homophones in that dialect?

[Vijay]

I just returned from a trip to Louisville, Kentucky, and now I'm wondering if I'll sound pretentious if I pronounce Louisville as natives do, something like /luː.ə.vɚ/ or /luːvɚ/

Wait, are Louisville and Louvre homophones in that dialect?

The only time I've ever heard Americans (or maybe even English-speakers in general) say "Louvre," I swear it sounded exactly the same as "loo."

[Viktor77]

I just returned from a trip to Louisville, Kentucky, and now I'm wondering if I'll sound pretentious if I pronounce Louisville as natives do, something like /luː.ə.vɚ/ or /luːvɚ/

Wait, are Louisville and Louvre homophones in that dialect?

The only time I've ever heard Americans (or maybe even English-speakers in general) say "Louvre," I swear it sounded exactly the same as "loo."

I think they say /luv/ maybe, but there's definitely not much similarity to Louisville.

[Pole, the]

Anyway, I am surprised by the presence of /r/ in Louisville.

[Zaarin]

Anyway, I am surprised by the presence of /r/ in Louisville.

They're Southerners; most Southerns have intrusive R in unstressed vowel-final words, like window /wɪndɚ/ or Louisiana (something like) /ˈluːˌziænɚ/.

[Viktor77]

Anyway, I am surprised by the presence of /r/ in Louisville.

That's me being a fucking noob. I didn't mean /`/ I meant /5/. I wanted to express a dark l and I mixed up the x-sampa symbol.

Fuck, I take total credit for that...too stressed out right now....

[----]

Speaking of "dark L", I pronounce all /l/'s as velarized but I also pronounce syllable final L's as different from syllable initial ones. So I'm never sure how to deal with this terminology.

[jmcd]

That's interesting. Perhaps just use the normal velarisation and pharyngealisation marks? If it is pharyngealisation in codas.

[Vijay]

They're Southerners; most Southerns have intrusive R in unstressed vowel-final words, like window /wɪndɚ/ or Louisiana (something like) /ˈluːˌziænɚ/.

I've lived almost my entire life in the South and I have never heard this down here in my whole life. Some Southerners do that. I dunno about "most."

Speaking of "dark L", I pronounce all /l/'s as velarized but I also pronounce syllable final L's as different from syllable initial ones. So I'm never sure how to deal with this terminology.

I thought everybody did that in American English (except in choral singing or something like that) and it's just that people don't really want to admit it, or they think [l] vs. [ɫ] is good enough for representing that distinction, or something.

[Zaarin]

They're Southerners; most Southerns have intrusive R in unstressed vowel-final words, like window /wɪndɚ/ or Louisiana (something like) /ˈluːˌziænɚ/.

I've lived almost my entire life in the South and I have never heard this down here in my whole life. Some Southerners do that. I dunno about "most."

I've had the misfortune to live in the South most of my life as well, namely in Georgia, but being raised by Northerners and having lived among Westerners and Northerners I've fortunately managed to escape obtaining a Southern accent--but I'm very familiar with them nonetheless. Where in the South are you familiar with? In my experience there are, broadly speaking, four Southern accents: Texas/Oklahoma, Louisiana*, Upper South (Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee, North Carolina, etc.), and Deep South (Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, chiefly). What I was describing is absolutely a feature of Deep South and lower registers of Upper South, but not of Texas or Louisiana or of higher registers of Upper South.

*By which I mean non-Cajun Louisiana, which is its own accent...