The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

[ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪]

But if you want me to point you to some spontaneous examples of native Irish, I can do that easily enough.

Whaddaya exactly mean by that?

[linguoboy]

But if you want me to point you to some spontaneous examples of native Irish, I can do that easily enough.

Whaddaya exactly mean by that?

I mean examples of native speakers of Gaeltacht Irish speaking spontaneously. For instance, in this video, the subject, Eoiní Ó Súilleabháin, and all of his family members are native speakers of West Muskerry Irish (a Munster dialect). It is an interview situation, so their speech isn't entirely natural, but it's an informal interview, taking place in their home, and their replies aren't scripted, so it's pretty damn close to how they spontaneously speak to each other. (I'm contrasting this to, say, reciting poetry or reading narration, which accounts for a lot of other available videos.)

[Vlürch]

therapeutic

Something like [θe̞ɾɐpju̟ːt̪ik~θɜɾa̠pjəʊ̯t̪ik~t̪ʰe̞ɾɐpjʉ̟ːt̪ik~t̪ʰɜɾa̠pju̟ːt̪ik]. I swear, if Americans/native English-speakers would hear that as "thettapeutic" and wouldn't understand, I'd facepalm so hard I'd need therapy...

pulchritudinous
delitescent
synderesis

[Zaarin]

therapeutic

Something like [θe̞ɾɐpju̟ːt̪ik~θɜɾa̠pjəʊ̯t̪ik~t̪ʰe̞ɾɐpjʉ̟ːt̪ik~t̪ʰɜɾa̠pju̟ːt̪ik]. I swear, if Americans/native English-speakers would hear that as "thettapeutic" and wouldn't understand, I'd facepalm so hard I'd need therapy...

pulchritudinous
delitescent
synderesis

By process of elimination, I would understand "therapeutic," but I would indeed hear "thettapeutic." :p My father's name is "Larry," and he was very irked when Korean's pronounced his name /leɾi/, a near-homophone of American English "lady." :p

[Salmoneus]

therapeutic

Something like [θe̞ɾɐpju̟ːt̪ik~θɜɾa̠pjəʊ̯t̪ik~t̪ʰe̞ɾɐpjʉ̟ːt̪ik~t̪ʰɜɾa̠pju̟ːt̪ik]. I swear, if Americans/native English-speakers would hear that as "thettapeutic" and wouldn't understand, I'd facepalm so hard I'd need therapy...

Ironically, this is one place a terrible accent can help you. If you had a perfect American accent, I'd interpret that flap as t/d... but if you sound like a learner, I'd interpret it as r.

pulchritudinous
delitescent
synderesis

I think these are just as they're written. /pVlkrI"tjudInUs/, /dElI"tEsnt/, /sInd@"risIs/. In other words, as you'd expect from the usual -udinous, -escent and -aesis/-esis paradigms.

[Vlürch]

DISCLAIMER: I like a lot of things about America (definitely more than I dislike, at least), but I can't miss this opportunity to lightheartedly make fun of America and Americans. Please don't ban me?

By process of elimination, I would understand "therapeutic," but I would indeed hear "thettapeutic." :p My father's name is "Larry," and he was very irked when Korean's pronounced his name /leɾi/, a near-homophone of American English "lady." :p

Heh, I'd say "Larry" as [læɾi], which might sound like "laddy". Well, I mean, of course I could say [ɭˤæ̰ːɻʷˤːə̰h] if I wanted to sound mega-American, but that'd probably be considered offensive and every American within a hundred miles would take turns beating the shit out of me while the rest clap as they drive around on their hands-free mobility scooters.

therapeutic

Something like [θe̞ɾɐpju̟ːt̪ik~θɜɾa̠pjəʊ̯t̪ik~t̪ʰe̞ɾɐpjʉ̟ːt̪ik~t̪ʰɜɾa̠pju̟ːt̪ik]. I swear, if Americans/native English-speakers would hear that as "thettapeutic" and wouldn't understand, I'd facepalm so hard I'd need therapy...

Ironically, this is one place a terrible accent can help you. If you had a perfect American accent, I'd interpret that flap as t/d... but if you sound like a learner, I'd interpret it as r.

Ironically, I'm not really a learner of English, and haven't been for years in the sense that I've always been exposed to it since I was born (and learning since I was 5) because, being born in Finland (arguably the most Americanised country in Europe; I mean, every time I watch videos on Youtube about "differences between America and Europe", my brain goes into full WTF mode over how things are in Europe... and then I realise that I'm in Europe, lol... but seriously, Finland is literally a little America...), there's legit no way to avoid it, and rarely get the "wait, how would this be in English?" feeling.

Thankfully, Finns don't learn American spellings*, because that'd make us the literal 53rd state**. Pronunciation of the American <r> is easy, but it's almost a matter of identity... like, if it's consistently and intuitively pronounced the American way, that's generally considered bad by most people AFAIK. For me personally, it'd just be nice to get the vowels to sound proper. Consonants aren't that big a deal, at least I don't think anyone has problems understanding me when I speak English in shit I upload on Youtube (but my pronunciation definitely goes all over the place, one second it can be one way and the next the exact opposite...). Sometimes, though, my brain does fail to function in English and I'll come across as someone who has just started learning it... but well, that happens on a daily basis to a certain American who shall not be named but whose complexion is like that of a certain fruit that shall not be named, so it's not that big a deal.

*At least didn't when I was in school, and most people my age and older don't use them. Teens seem to do it a lot more, though, and that's pretty annoying.
*There are 52 states. West Texania and New Wallachia are the 51st and 52nd.

...but yeah, the problem of being Finnish is that we're forever doomed to be monolingual in Finnish: no matter how many languages a Finn can speak, their accent will mark them as not-fluent-in-a-thousand-years. I myself really am a monolingual Finn, though, since English isn't even considered a foreign language and I can't speak Swedish or Russian or anything else. No amount of conlanging, banter, music and happiness can fill that hole in my heart. But well, I'm not all that sad about it, at least not now, since I don't even have a life. I always start rambling about pointless shit like a narcissist, lol...

[Zaarin]

Ironically, I'm not really a learner of English, and haven't been for years in the sense that I've always been exposed to it since I was born (and learning since I was 5) because, being born in Finland (arguably the most Americanised country in Europe; I mean, every time I watch videos on Youtube about "differences between America and Europe", my brain goes into full WTF mode over how things are in Europe... and then I realise that I'm in Europe, lol... but seriously, Finland is literally a little America...), there's legit no way to avoid it, and rarely get the "wait, how would this be in English?" feeling.

I find this pretty fascinating, because I was reading that Sweden was becoming extremely American in the 80s until a nationalist wave swept over Sweden and made them more resistant to American media. Granted, my source is a roleplaying book set in suburban 80s Sweden, but it was written by Swedes...

...but yeah, the problem of being Finnish is that we're forever doomed to be monolingual in Finnish: no matter how many languages a Finn can speak, their accent will mark them as not-fluent-in-a-thousand-years. I myself really am a monolingual Finn, though, since English isn't even considered a foreign language and I can't speak Swedish or Russian or anything else. No amount of conlanging, banter, music and happiness can fill that hole in my heart. But well, I'm not all that sad about it, at least not now, since I don't even have a life. I always start rambling about pointless shit like a narcissist, lol...

I get pretty depressed that I'm monolingual, but I tend to get too interested in the technical workings of a language to actually learn it. That and I like obscure dead languages; I might have trouble finding someone to speak Punic with. I might do a little better with Akkadian, I guess...

[communistplot]

pulchritudinous
delitescent
synderesis

[pʊl.kɹɪˈtuʊ̯.ɾɪ.nəs]

[dɛ.lɪ.tɛ.ˈsʌ̃t̚]

[sɪ.ɾ̃ə.ˈɹiɪ̯.sɨs]

It's always interesting trying to pronounce words for the first time.

[Travis B.]

pulchritudinous
delitescent
synderesis

I think these are just as they're written. /pVlkrI"tjudInUs/, /dElI"tEsnt/, /sInd@"risIs/. In other words, as you'd expect from the usual -udinous, -escent and -aesis/-esis paradigms.

Similar thought here; I would have [ˌpʰʊˠːkʁɘˈtʲʰʉːɾɘ̃ːnɘs], [ˌtɜːɤ̯ɘˈtʰɜsɘ̃ʔ], and [ˌsɘ̃ːndʁ̩ːˈʁisɘs], which are the regular outcomes of these words in my dialect as per spelling.

[Nortaneous]

/pʌlkrɨˈtuwdənəs/ [ˌpʌɫkɹɨˈtʰʉ̈wdn̩əs]
/delɨˈtesənt/ [ˌd̥ɛɫɨˈtʰɛsn̩ʔt]
/sindərˈijsis/ [ˌsɪndɚˈïjˌsɪs]

[Imralu]

I'm curious about when y'all pronounce [ɱ]. I've realised for me it's an allophone of /n/ but never of /m/ ... I might even insert a slight [p] in between /m/ and /f/

symphony
infinitive

For me they're
[ˈsɪm(p)fənɪ̆i̯]
[ɪn͡ɱˈfɪnəɾɪv]~[ɪɱˈfɪnəɾɪv]

[linguoboy]

Caleb

[Travis B.]

symphony: [ˈsɘ̃ɱfɘ̃ːˌni(ː)]
infinitive: [ɘ̃ɱˈfɘ̃ːːɾɘːf], before a sonorant [ɘ̃ɱˈfɘ̃ːːɾɘːv]
Caleb: [ˈkʰeːɯ̯əːp], before a sonorant [ˈkʰeːɯ̯əːb]

[Zaarin]

symphony [ˈsɪɱfəni]
infinitive [ɪnˈfɪnəɾɪv] (yes, that's an [n])
Caleb [ˈkʰɛɪ̯ɫəb]

[kanejam]

I think these are just as they're written. /pVlkrI"tjudInUs/, /dElI"tEsnt/, /sInd@"risIs/. In other words, as you'd expect from the usual -udinous, -escent and -aesis/-esis paradigms.

I would probably have gone with /-iːʃənt/ for the second word because apparently I have been saying excrescent wrong my whole life. I also hesitated between penult and antepenult stress for the third word.
[pʰʊu̯kʰɹ̠əˈtʃʰʊ̈ʉ̯ɾənəs]
[dɛɫəˈtʰesə̃ʔ]
[sə̃ndəˈɹ̠ɪi̯səs]

I'm curious about when y'all pronounce [ɱ]. I've realised for me it's an allophone of /n/ but never of /m/ ... I might even insert a slight [p] in between /m/ and /f/

I'm with you in careful speech, but in rapid speech my nasals drop before fricatives. The /p/ shows up as a glottal stop for me.
[ˈsɘ̃(ʔ)fənɪi̯]
[ə̃ˈfɘnəɾəv]
[ˈkʰæe̯ɫəb̚]

[Sumelic]

[p] in /mf/ definitely seems possible for me, but I'm not sure how often it is present.

How do you pronounce:
quaff
waft
waffle

Jungian
diphthongal

?

[linguoboy]

[p] in /mf/ definitely seems possible for me, but I'm not sure how often it is present.

How do you pronounce:
quaff
waft
waffle

Pretty sure those all have [ɑ] for me. (I assume that's what you were asking about.)

Jungian
diphthongal

/'juŋiːən/
/difˈθɔŋəl/

I used to pronounce diphthong with /p/. I still do occasionally, so I imagine the same thing might happen here. (Though since it's a rarer word, I might be more careful.)

[Travis B.]

quaff: [kʰwɑf]
waft: [wɑft]
waffle: [ˈwɑfɯ(ː)]
Jungian: [ˈjʌ̃ːŋiːɘ̃(ː)n]~[ˈjʊ̃ːŋiːɘ̃(ː)n]
diphthongal: [tɘpˈθɒ̃ːŋgɯ(ː)]~[tɘpˈt̪ɒ̃ːŋgɯ(ː)]

[jal]

quaff: [kʰwɑf]

Just to be sure, you don't devoice [w]?


JAL

[Salmoneus]

quaff: [kʰwɑf]

Just to be sure, you don't devoice [w]?


JAL

I can't speak for Travis' unique accent, but personally, I so much do not devoice /w/ there that I think I actually deaspirate the /k/ just to be sure.

[doing the usual primitive 'hand in front of mouth thing': OK, I think there probably is some aspiration, but possibly not always, and certainly less than normal. And interestingly this is much more marked with following back vowels (quaff, quantised*, quarrel, etc) than in front vowels (queen, quip, etc). Maybe there's something going on with maximising the distinctness of /w/, which is more pressing when "rounded" (though not really rounded) vowels follow?]


*huh. Just realised that I have different vowels in 'quaff' and 'quantum'. And 'scoff' vs 'dog'. It's... raising before fricatives, maybe? No - before /f, v, T, D/ and maybe /t/ and /S/? It's certainly not phonemic, anyway, but saying two words in succession the difference is in some cases quite marked.

[ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪]

*huh. Just realised that I have different vowels in 'quaff' and 'quantum'. And 'scoff' vs 'dog'. It's... raising before fricatives, maybe? No - before /f, v, T, D/ and maybe /t/ and /S/? It's certainly not phonemic, anyway, but saying two words in succession the difference is in some cases quite marked.

Isn't it called the LOT-CLOTH split? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonologi ... LOTH_split

[Travis B.]

quaff: [kʰwɑf]

Just to be sure, you don't devoice [w]?

No, I do devoice it, I just did not bother to be that detailed in my transcription.

[Salmoneus]

*huh. Just realised that I have different vowels in 'quaff' and 'quantum'. And 'scoff' vs 'dog'. It's... raising before fricatives, maybe? No - before /f, v, T, D/ and maybe /t/ and /S/? It's certainly not phonemic, anyway, but saying two words in succession the difference is in some cases quite marked.

Isn't it called the LOT-CLOTH split? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonologi ... LOTH_split

No.
It's not a phonemic split, it's entirely conditioned, and not really binary. It doesn't match up with the lot/cloth sets at all, and there's no lengthening, and both are still basically /Q/.

[KathTheDragon]

Have you tried analysing it with e.g. Praat?

[Salmoneus]

Have you tried analysing it with e.g. Praat?

I'm not a phonologist, I'm afraid. I'm not sure I even have a working microphone anywhere, let alone phonological analysis software...


Do you not hear a difference between your "scoff" and "quantum", say?