The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
Fooge
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:29 pm

How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish?

Post by Fooge »

Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/ however /kr{pi/ is a common pronunciation nowadays due to spelling pronunciation and influence of the word "crap".

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish?

Post by linguoboy »

Fooge wrote:Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish?

Post by Travis B. »

linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.
Same thought here.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

Sumelic
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Sumelic »

linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]
I also wonder about that, but it does seem to be the most common pronunciation given in dictionaries.

I've never used the word much, but I thought of it as having /æ/.

It seems to come from French "crapet", used by Canadian speakers. Based on the spelling, I wouldn't expect this to have /ɑ/ in any variety of French, but apparently 'cropet' exists or existed as a dialectal variant in some regions, so I'm not totally sure if the English pronunciation might be based in some way on a variant French form with some kind of back vowel in the first syllable. The OED says the English word has been spelled with "o", although that could well just be a pronunciation-spelling based on an English pronunciation with /ɑ/ that was based on a French pronunciation with /a/.

Fooge
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish?

Post by Fooge »

linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.
All dictionaries I've looked in give /krɑpi/ as the pronunciation of "crappie". I've never seen a dictionary that listed /kræpi/ even as an alternative pronunciation.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crappie

I myself pronounce it /kræpi/.

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish?

Post by linguoboy »

Fooge wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.
All dictionaries I've looked in give /krɑpi/ as the pronunciation of "crappie". I've never seen a dictionary that listed /kræpi/ even as an alternative pronunciation.
Maybe you need to look in more dictionaries?
OED wrote:Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈkrapi/, U.S. /ˈkrɑpi/, /ˈkræpi/
(Note that BE /a/ is the phonemic correlate of AE /æ/.)

Fooge
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Fooge »

How do you pronounce Sbarro the pizza place? I've heard / s@bAroU/ and /spAroU/.

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by linguoboy »

I think I vary between [ʹzbaro] and [ʹz̥b̥aːɾoʊ] depending on who I'm talking to. It's such an unabashedly Italian name that I aim for something close to the Italian pronunciation but I don't always nail it.

User avatar
Zaarin
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Zaarin »

I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by linguoboy »

Zaarin wrote:I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )
For a while, we had one in the food court next door, so it was convenient for a quick bite. Now the campus catering company makes its own, which is slightly worse. Unfortunately, it's a long hike downtown for anything resembling a foodie option.

So while we're on an Italian food kick:
zabaglione
dulce de leche
mostaccioli
paste e fagioli

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Vijay »

Dulce de leche?

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Salmoneus »

linguoboy wrote: dulce de leche
I used to pronounce this as though it were Italian - though only a couple of times, since it usen't to be common here. I've since made the correction.

Your other words are too rare for me to honestly have a fixed pronunciation (I don't think I've ever encountered them, in fact), other than trying to follow italian pronunciation rules so far as I'm aware of them.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Vijay »

Salmoneus wrote:Your other words are too rare for me to honestly have a fixed pronunciation (I don't think I've ever encountered them, in fact), other than trying to follow italian pronunciation rules so far as I'm aware of them.
Pretty much the same for me. I would pronounce zabaglione, mostaccioli, and paste e fagioli as if they were just Italian words and dulce de leche as in Spanish.

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by linguoboy »

Vijay wrote:Dulce de leche?
As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/.

Mostaccioli is a staple at weddings in St Louis (at least within a certain social stratum), but the local pronunciation is with /ˈməsk/ rather than /ˈmɔst/. It wouldn't have occurred to me this was unusual if a(n Italian-American) classmate of mind hadn't peeved about it.

Pasta e fagioli is pretty commonplace in areas with large Italian-American communities (like Chicago). But because so many of the original immigrants were Neapolitian or Sicilian, the pronunciation /ˌpɑstəfəˈzuːl/ is more widespread, at least among the older generation. I picked up this pronunciation from my ex, who grew up in SoCal.

User avatar
Zaarin
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Zaarin »

I pronounce dulce de leche "caramel," because I'm so confused and haven't even the vaguest clue what language it is or how it should be pronounced. :p
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

User avatar
alynnidalar
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:35 pm
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by alynnidalar »

Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.

yangfiretiger121
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 11:22 am

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by yangfiretiger121 »

linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dulce de leche?
As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/.

Mostaccioli is a staple at weddings in St Louis (at least within a certain social stratum), but the local pronunciation is with /ˈməsk/ rather than /ˈmɔst/. It wouldn't have occurred to me this was unusual if a(n Italian-American) classmate of mind hadn't peeved about it.

Pasta e fagioli is pretty commonplace in areas with large Italian-American communities (like Chicago). But because so many of the original immigrants were Neapolitan or Sicilian, the pronunciation /ˌpɑstəfəˈzuːl/ is more widespread, at least among the older generation. I picked up this pronunciation from my ex, who grew up in SoCal.
Emphasis added.

Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.

User avatar
ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:11 pm
Location: Łódź

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ »

yangfiretiger121 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dulce de leche?
As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/
Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.
He's talking about the <c> in dulce, which in fact looks to me more Italian than Spanish. Maybe some Duce has some impact on it?
In Budapest:
- Hey mate, are you hung-a-ry?

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by linguoboy »

yangfiretiger121 wrote:Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.
The average English-speaker doesn't know those rules.

The Italian-American entertainer Dominic Amici respelled his surname "Ameche" in order to get USAmericans to pronounce it correctly.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Travis B. »

I didn't know people (read: Americans) pronounced dulce de leche as something other than /ˈdulseɪ deɪ ˈleɪtʃeɪ/ or /ˈdʌlseɪ deɪ ˈleɪtʃeɪ/
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Vijay »

Zaarin wrote:I pronounce dulce de leche "caramel," because I'm so confused and haven't even the vaguest clue what language it is or how it should be pronounced. :p
I would pronounce it [ˈd̪ulse ðe ˈlet͡ʃe] (or maybe [ˈd̪ulse d̪e ˈlet͡ʃe]).

If my parents mangled the pronunciation atrociously and often enough, I would probably transcribe it for them in Malayalam script as ദുത്സെ ദെ ലേച്ചെ -> [d̪ulˈse d̪e ˈleːt͡ʃe], or maybe ദൂത്സെ ദെ ലേച്ചെ -> [ˈd̪uːlse d̪e ˈleːt͡ʃe], or maybe even ദൂത്സെതെ ലേച്ചെ -> [ˈd̪uːlse ðe ˈleːt͡ʃe](?). I have a sneaking suspicion that Spanish may be easier than Hindi for most Indians to pronounce accurately.
Last edited by Vijay on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yangfiretiger121
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 11:22 am

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by yangfiretiger121 »

ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dulce de leche?
As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/
Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.
He's talking about the <c> in dulce, which in fact looks to be more Italian than Spanish. Maybe some Duce has some impact on it?
Point taken. I should have realized that because I pronounced it correctly the first time I saw it. Of course, I'm a native English speaker so <ch> and /ʧ/ are more-or-less equivalent. Odds are, my native tongue overruled the one I was trying to help pronounce there. My original correction brought up Lecce, which is <cc> and /let.ʧe/. Italian is such fun.

User avatar
Ryusenshi
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:31 am
Location: Montrouge, France

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Ryusenshi »

alynnidalar wrote:Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.
Meh, Spanish doesn't distinguish between /ɛ/ and /e/ anyway. And a diphthongal [eɪ] would be more foreign to Spanish than an [ɛ].

On second thought, if your DRESS vowel is closer to [ɐ] on account of your NCVS, this might sound weird.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Travis B. »

Ryusenshi wrote:
alynnidalar wrote:Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.
Meh, Spanish doesn't distinguish between /ɛ/ and /e/ anyway. And a diphthongal [eɪ] would be more foreign to Spanish than an [ɛ].

On second thought, if your DRESS vowel is closer to [ɐ] on account of your NCVS, this might sound weird.
I was just referring to the standard sort of transcription for NAE phonemes; standard /eɪ/ is the monophthong [e] for me.

That said, I do vary between /eɪ/ and /ɛ/, i.e. [e] and [ɜ], when saying Spanish words.

About dentals versus alveolar consonants, if I don't consciously try to do so, I use alveolar consonants when speaking Spanish words in English, even though I personally have interdental fricatives and dental stops that are allophones of each other.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

Fooge
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

Post by Fooge »

Zaarin wrote:I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )
/ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ "ess barro"? That's interesting. I can't remember ever hearing anyone saying Sbarro like that and outside of context I might not even understand what they are referring to. I typically hear either /səbɑɹoː/ or /spɑɹoː/ or maybe even /zbɑɹoː/.

Post Reply