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zompist bboard • View topic - The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:28 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:51 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Yorkshire
I think:
factory [ˈfaktʃɹɪ]
factorial [fakˈtʰoəɹiəɫ]
century [ˈsɛntʃəɹɪ]
centurion [sɛnˈt̺ʃʊːɹiən] (the affricate is apical, suggesting /tj/; in all other examples it's laminal)
victory [ˈvɪktʃɹɪ]
victorious [vɪkˈtʰoəɹiəs]
restaurant [ˈɹɛʃtʃəɹɒnt]
restauranteur [ɹɛʃtʃəɹɒnˈtʰœː] (I think: I don't say this word very often)
history [ˈhɪʃtʃɹɪ]
historical [hɪˈstɒɹɪkɫ] (note second vowel)
mystery [ˈmɪʃtʃɹɪ]
mysterious [mɪˈstɪːɹiəs]
interest [ˈɪntʃɹɛst]
interesting [ˈɪntʃɹɛstɪŋg]
interestingly [ˈɪntʃɹɛstɪŋglɪ]

- All /n/s before postalveolars assimilate their POA, but I can't be bothered to transcribe that.
- [tʃ] before [ɹ] is somewhat less palatalised than elsewhere.
- words ending in [ɪ] change it to [i] if followed by a word beginning with a vowel


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:39 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:15 pm
Posts: 1418
factory [fæk̚tɹ̩ʷˤi]
factorial [fæk̚tɔɹʷˤiəʟ]
century [sɪntʃɹ̩ʷˤi]
centurion [sɪntʃʉɹʷˤiɨn]
victory [vɨk̚tɹ̩ʷˤi]
victorious [vɨk̚tɔɹʷˤiɨs]
restaurant [ɹʷˤɛstʃɹ̩ʷˤanʔ]
restauranteur [ɹʷˤɛstʃɹ̩ʷˤantɵɜ˞ˤ]
history [hɨstɹʷˤi]
historical [hɨstɔɹʷˤɨkʟ̩]
mystery [mɨstɹʷˤi]
mysterious mɨstiɹʷˤiɨs
interest [ɨntɹʷˤɛsʔ]
interesting [ɨntɹʷˤɛstiŋ]
interestingly [ɨntɹʷˤɛstiŋʟi]
house [hæɵs]


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:52 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Texas
mirror [ˈmɪɹə]
nearer [ˈniəɹə]
irrespective [ˌɪɹəˈspɛ̝k̚t̪ɪv]
irresponsible [ˌɪɹəˈspɔ̞̜nsɪˌbo̜]
irrational [ɪˈɹæʃnˌ̩o̜]
irrevocable [ˌɪɹəˈvɞ̜̟ʉ̯kəˌbo̜]
irradiate [ɪˈɹɛ̞e̯ɾɪˌjɛ̞e̯ʔ]
factory [ˈfæk̚tɹɪj]
factorial [fæk̚ˈt̪ʰoːɹɪˌjo̜]
century [ˈsentʃ(ə)ɹi]
centurion [s(e)nˈ̩tʃʉɹɪˌjn̩]
victory [ˈvɪk̚tɹi]
victorious [vɪk̚ˈt̪ʰoːɹɪˌjəs]
restaurant [ˈrɛ̝stɹɔ̜̞nʔ]
restauranteur [ˌrɛ̝stɹɔ̜̞nˈtɘ˞ː]
history [ˈhɪstɹɪj]
historical [his̪ˈt̪ʰɔ̜̞ɹ(ə)ko̜]
mystery [ˈmɪstɹɪj]
mysterious [ms̪ˈt̪iəɹjəs]
interest [ˈi̞ntʃɹɛ̝s̪t̪]
interesting [ˈi̞ntʃɹs̪t̪iŋ]
interestingly [ˈi̞ntʃɹs̪t̪iŋlɪj]
house n: [hɛɔ̯s] v: [hɛɔ̯z]

EDIT: Forgot aspiration.

_________________

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.


Last edited by äreo on Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:16 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US
Hah, I just thought of a couple /ɪrɪ/- words that clearly contrast with my /ɪrrɪ/- words before, clearly showing that all those words before had /ɪrr/- and not just /ɪr/- in my dialect:

iridescent: [ɪːʁˤɨːˈdɜsɨ̃ʔ]
irritate: [ɪːʁˤɨˈtʰeʔ] (yes, this is a case of orthographic irr- marking /ɪr/- rather than /ɪrr/-)

_________________
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:29 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US

_________________
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:51 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:53 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Posts: 4545
Location: the Imperial Corridor

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:06 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US

_________________
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:49 pm
Posts: 270
I have /ǝr/ for <nearer> and /mirər/ for <mirror>. What do those for whom they don't rhyme have?
I've been wondering about <Basque> for a while; I have /bæsk/, with the <e> silent on analogy with <mosque>, but after discovering that <velar> has /i/ where I'd been saying /ɛ/, I'm rather unsure of myself. Also, after listening to the podcast, I was wondering about:
<conlang> (I have /'kon.leŋ/)
and <conlangery> (I have /kon.'leŋ.ǝr.i/, or, if feeling silly, /kon.lã.ʒɛr.'e/)

EDIT: Ah, sorry, I seem to have accidentally deleted part of my transcription of <nearer>, which should be /nirǝr/.

_________________
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."
–Herm Albright
Even better than a proto-conlang, it's the *kondn̥ǵʰwéh₂s


Last edited by Jetboy on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:36 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:13 pm
Posts: 251
Location: The Southland
I wonder if anyone else has a Just-Just split, that is, Just as in Justice is [dZVst] but Just as in Only is [dZ1st]


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:56 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Texas

_________________

Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:13 am 
Lebom
Lebom
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:51 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Yorkshire


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:39 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:51 pm
Posts: 430
How do you pronounce "plosive"?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:44 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:23 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: I am a prisoner in my own mind.

_________________

OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

Formerly known as Drydic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:57 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 3581
Location: Milwaukee, US
Okay, here are my versions of these:

factory: [ˈfɛʔk̚tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
factorial: [fɛʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤjɯ̞(ː)] or, carefully, [fɛʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤiːɯ̞(ː)]
century: [ˈsɜ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤi(ː)] or, carefully, [ˈsɜ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
centurion: [sɜ̃ˈtɕʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤjɨ̃(ː)n] or, carefully, [sɜ̃ˈtɕʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤĩːɨ̃(ː)n]
victory: [ˈvɪʔk̚tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
victorious: [vɨʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤjɨs] or, carefully, [vɨʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤiːɨs]
restaurant: [ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãʔ]
restauranteur: [ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãˌt̻ʰʉ̯̆ŭʁˤ]~[ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãˌt̻ʰʉ̯uʁˤ]
history: [ˈhɪɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
historical: [hɨˈs̻t̻ɔːʁˤɨɡ̊ɯ̞(ː)]
mystery: [ˈmɪɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
mysterious: [mɨˈs̻t̻ɪːʁˤjɨs] or, carefully, [mɨˈs̻t̻ɪːʁˤiːɨs]
interest: [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻] or, very carefully, [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻]
interesting: [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɨs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ] or, a bit carefully, [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ] or, more carefully, [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ]
interestingly: [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɨs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)] or, a bit carefully, [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)] or, more carefully, [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)]

Not all of these actually demonstrated what I was looking for, which was cases of affrication in (unstressed) /tər/ without being reduced to /tr/, because some of these actually involved /tj/ historically in all dialects (e.g. century), and likewise, not all of these involved actual stress shifts, but I did not go back to change them.

What is also apparent is that most of you have much more reduction than I do here, in that most of the places I have /tʃər/ are places where the rest of you have just /tr/ or /tʃr/.

_________________
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:59 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:35 pm
Posts: 3600
Location: Tokyo
co-ordinate /ko.ɔrdɪnet/ [kʰəˈwɔɹdn̩e(ɪ)ʔ] as a verb or /ko.ɔrdɪnət/ as a noun.
laboratory /ləbɔrətri/ [ləˈbɔɻətʂɻi]
mirror /mɪrər/ [ˈmɪɻɚ]~[ˈmɪɻə]
nearer /nirər/ [ˈniːɻɚ]~[ˈniːɻə]

factory /faktəri/ [ˈfak̚təɹʷi] (slight asp. on [t])
factorial /faktoriəl/ [fak̚ˈtʰoːɻʷiəɫ]~[fak̚ˈtʰoːɻʷio] (sporadic L-vocalisation imd although i'm not entirely sure of the value of the vowel so i've just marked it as [o] - also the [a] can be [ə])
century /sɛntʃuri/ [ˈsɛntʃʉ̽ɹʷi]
centurion /səntʃuriən/ [sn̩ˈtʃʉːɻi.n̩]
victory /vɪktəri/ [ˈvɪk̚təɹʷi]
victorious /vɪktoriəs/ [vɪk̚ˈtoːɻiəs]
restaurant /rɛstərɔnt/ [ˈɻɛstəɹɔ(ː)nt]
restauranteur [ʁɛstoʁaˈtø:ʁ]~[ɻɛstəɻaˈtʰɚː] (I don't really use this word, so if I see it I tend to mentally give it a French pronunciation. Also, if you want to be posh, it has no n. I've used that pronunciation here.)
history /hɪstəri/ [ˈhɪstəɹʷi]
historical /hɪstɔrɪkəl/ [hɪsˈtɔɻɪkɫ̩]~[hɪsˈtɔɻɪko]
mystery /mɪstəri/ [ˈmɪstəɹʷi]
mysterious /mɪstiriəs/ [mɪ̽sˈtiːɻʷiəs]
interest /ɪntrɛst/ [ˈɪntʃɹʷɛst]
interesting /ɪntrɛstɪŋ/ [ˈɪntʃɹʷəstɪŋ]~[ˈɪntʃɹʷɛstɪŋ]
interestingly /ɪntrɛstɪŋli/ [ˈɪntʃɹʷəstɪŋɫi]~[ˈɪntʃɹʷɛstɪŋɫi]

I'm not too sure about these Rs to be honest, but this seems to be roughly accurate for the moment. I seem to have some kind of fine-tuned difference between ones after a stressed vowel and ones in an unstressed environment, which I've marked [ɻ] and [ɹʷ] respectively. Some of the [ɻ]s are also labialised but I've not been very consistent about marking this..

I also definitely affricatise /tr/ and have marked that in the transcription with [tʂɻ] or [tʃɹʷ].

But yeah, grain of salt with these perhaps, since they're pronounced unrealistically.

house: /haus/ [hɜʊ̟s] as a noun, /hauz/ [hæːuz] as a verb.
carver: /karvər/ [ˈkɑːɻvɚ]

quart: /kwɔrt/ [kʰʷwɔ̞ːɻt] (or with [ʔ] at the end)
quarter: /kwɔrtər/ [kʰʷwɔ̞ːɻtɚ]

irrespective: /ɪrəspɛktɪv/ [ɪɻəsˈpɛk̚tɪ̽v]
irresponsible /ɪrəspɔnsɪbəl/ [ɪɻəsˈpɔnsəbɫ̩]
irrational /ɪraʃənəl/ [ɪˈɻaʃn̩ɫ̩]~[əˈɻaʃn̩ɫ̩]
irrevocable /ɪrɪvɔkəbəl/ [ɪɻɪˈvɔkəbɫ̩]
irradiate /ɪrediet/ [ɪˈɻeːdieʔ]~[əˈɻeːdieʔ]

again, in several of these L-vocalisation is also possible, and ɪɻə~ɪɻɪ appear to be interchangeable to some extent...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:01 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:58 pm 
Avisaru
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Is there a superscript esh with curl anywhere in Unicode?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:16 pm 
Sumerul
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Okay, here are my pronunciations again, but with synchronic phonemes being added. (Note that this is using a relatively simple analysis that lacks phonemic vowel length or nasalization being marked, even though both appear to be phonemic in edge cases.)

factory: /ˈfɛktʃəri/ > [ˈfɛʔk̚tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
factorial: /fɛkˈtɔriəl/ > [fɛʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤjɯ̞(ː)] or, carefully, [fɛʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤiːɯ̞(ː)]
century: /ˈsɜntʃri/ > [ˈsɜ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤi(ː)] or, carefully, /ˈsɜntʃəri/ > [ˈsɜ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
centurion: /sɜnˈtʃəriɪn/ > [sɜ̃ˈtɕʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤjɨ̃(ː)n] or, carefully, [sɜ̃ˈtɕʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤĩːɨ̃(ː)n]
victory: /ˈvɪktʃəri/ > [ˈvɪʔk̚tɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
victorious: /vɪkˈtɔriɪs/ > [vɨʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤjɨs] or, carefully, [vɨʔk̚ˈtʰɔːʁˤiːɨs]
restaurant: /ˈrɜstʃərant/ > [ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãʔ]
restauranteur: /ˈrɜstʃəranˌtur/ > [ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãˌt̻ʰʉ̯̆ŭʁˤ]~[ˈɰˤɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤãˌt̻ʰʉ̯uʁˤ]
history: /ˈhɪstʃəri/ > [ˈhɪɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
historical: /hɪˈstɔrɪkəl/ > [hɨˈs̻t̻ɔːʁˤɨɡ̊ɯ̞(ː)]
mystery: /ˈmɪstʃəri/ > [ˈmɪɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]
mysterious: /mɪˈstɪriɪs/ > [mɨˈs̻t̻ɪːʁˤjɨs] or, carefully, [mɨˈs̻t̻ɪːʁˤiːɨs]
interest: /ˈɪnˌtʃrɜst/ > [ˈɪ̃ˌtʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻] or, very carefully, /ˈɪntʃəˌrɜst/ > [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻]
interesting: /ˈɪntʃrɪstɪŋ/ > [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɨs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ] or, a bit carefully, /ˈɪnˌtʃrɜstɪŋ/ > [ˈɪ̃ˌtʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ] or, more carefully, /ˈɪntʃəˌrɜstɪŋ/ > [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃(ː)ŋ]
interestingly: /ˈɪntʃrɪstɪŋli/ > [ˈɪ̃tʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɨs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)] or, a bit carefully, /ˈɪnˌtʃrɜstɪŋli/ > [ˈɪ̃ˌtʃɹ̠͡ɰˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)] or, more carefully, /ˈɪntʃəˌrɜstɪŋli/ > [ˈɪ̃tɕʁ̩ˤːˌʁˤɜs̻t̻ɨ̃ːŋɰi(ː)]

There are some cases above that seem a bit weird, such as when I write /stʃ/ rather than /ʃtʃ/ even though, in my own everyday speech the latter would probably be a better description than the former. However, I write the former because in more careful speech pronunciations with [s̻] rather than [ɕ] initially may show up, and even I when trying to pronounce it very carefully seem to at least front the pronunciation of it more than if it were /ʃ/ initially.

Also, when I write /tʃr/ above I mean it, and not /tr/. Many idiolects in my dialect medially contrast /tr/ with /tʃr/ as [tʂɹ͡ʁˤ] versus [tʃɹ̠͡ʁˤ] (and likewise contrast /dr/ with /dʒr/ as [d̥ʐ̊ɹ͡ʁˤ] versus [d̥ʒ̊ɹ̠͡ʁˤ]), even though mine does not. However, in these cases here it is clear that these are indeed /tʃr/ and not /tr/ despite my pronouncing the two identically.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


Last edited by Travis B. on Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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